Mentor minimum requirement is too low / needs adjustment

[Shougun]

@Shougun:
Well, with the coming introduction of jump potions, a "Hall of the Intermediate" has been in talks, basically the same as the Hall of the Novice, but it teaches you proper high level rotations for your class and the like.
I think a "higher tier" of mentors could be tied to that, just how the current mentor/sprout system came together with the Hall of the Novice. I'm not entirely sure how good of an idea it would be to further fragment the mentors though.
Since the first rush after the system got introduced, mentor activity has dwindled quite a bit and further separating that..idk.

The thing is, I see the activity in the network and the help in content everyday. The level of the players there is absolutely fine. And I've never heard a single Sprout complain about it either.
The only thing people actually have complaints about is the Mentor roulette (well, and mentors doing badly in unrelated-to-newbies content, but we've established that at least the current version of the system is specifically targeted at newbies only).
And personally, I think the main problem with the mentor roulette is the reward. People don't bother with explanations, good play, or even just not-behaving-like-an-a*****e, because they need to quickly get their 1000 mentor roulette duties done for the mount.

I get your concern but if I wasn't explicit enough, I'm fairly sure I can alleviate at least my intentions to you . I want people to be mentor easily and readily, but only for that which they're good at lol. So for general helping, just flipping on the "I'm a nice person who made it to the end of the story you're doing" is great. I DONT want mentor to be specifically epeen or "I can do all the rotations perfectly" I only want people to be good at what they need to teach :P. I'm not looking to evacuate all mentors because they haven't ran 500 fates, 10,000 dungeons, 50 days of game time, or whatever - perhaps people who are suggesting those time gated changes can instead suggest a new mentor field: psychiatrist mentor lol "I've grinded too much, talk to me if you're feeling burnt out" haha (joke, mostly).

Personally would make it easier to become just a general mentor but be very careful with roulette and mentor specific titles (like I'll have a crafter to 60 soon, but if you asked me question about crafter beyond what is a good website I'd probably give you all the wrong info lol). Haven't made the collectible stuff on crafter but I can say that stuff is easy peezy on gatherer so having collected those doesn't make me that helpful. Not sure (since I don't know those roles very well) what sort of test you could make though. Perhaps there isnt one? I don't know :P.

Hm..the thing is though, the system is by default not built to be that specific. I'd go ahead and argue that only the tiniest bit (if any at all) of the current PvE mentors...or ANY players, for that matter...actually play literally every single class that exists in the game on raid level. Like for example, my own active classes are BLM, WHM, AST, BRD and NIN. To a degree, DRK. While I am close to having all classes at 60, I could never actually give out advice to a DRG about their rotation, or a SCH about how to correctly balance their healing and dpsing, or a WAR how all those weird combos work. And that's fine, because the system is not meant to be that specific, because it's meant to be just advice based on roles, not specific jobs (like telling the new tank to pick up Provoke and explaining how it works, but not intricate explanations about PLD cooldown management at lvl 60, for example).

Exactly why I was aiming for a simple star no star + mentor status thing, don't want it too complex for others to understand or banish anyone who can't complete savage mode with one arm tied behind their back while wearing an eye patch.. but I do want to suggest changes to the mentor system that makes it more specific to your ability. You know how to play WHM? You join a queue as WHM and you have mentor icon with a star (or whatever simple consistent change people want) saying hey "I'm a helper, and I know WHM" vs like you're on Paladin but also have mentor status on - you'd have no star but you'd still be mentor. I'm not sure if that star should prevent you from using the mentor roulette (if you don't have one).. since we want as many mentors as possible.. but I keep referencing monk and black mage in my posts because I've seen some literal awful monk and mentor black mages where they messed up their stacks 24/7. I checked their lodestone and they were leveling those jobs, which is fine - but they'd be terrible teachers of the job they were playing lol.

And as you're mentioning the tutorials you might see why I think it could add double encouragement to SE to make some really good tutorials (a system SE can reference to make sure you know your stuff, a system that can help new players improve, and also help stabilize/evaluate current players). Also on a personal level I want to see content that gives me an environment to test my limits just by myself - no super boss WHM to save me, just some NPC maybe and a load of complex mechanics. I would love to see a bullet hell ultimate challenge (not required to be mentor ofc, just want to have some really challenging ME content where I can improve me without killing other people's stuff and also not relying on others as well). It does give me an ulterior motive to suggesting the mentor changes though :P.

Also, and I think being required to run Mentor Roulettes to maintain your icon should be a thing.

Might kill some of the general helpers or crafting mentors though?

[worldofneil]

I was able to become a mentor without leveling any tank to 60 (check lodestone)

Because you met the crafting/gathering requirements. There's two ways to become a mentor. Tank/healer/dps to 60, 300 commendations and 100 dungeon instances OR one crafter and one gatherer to 60 and 300 collectables gathered and 100 collectables crafted.

[bswpayton]

Mentor here, chiming in.
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Id have to disagree on this while I have gotten commendations on a dps but I just simply dont dps unless Im running with friends because to me the que times just simply arent worth dpsing when a tank is just as fun with a much faster que time. And everyone is talking about this mount but the mentors on my channel actually dont even really care for the mount simply because they dont have the patients to deal with all the new players that they try and guide in these roulette. The mentor mount is the only mount that actually rewards you for your time spent unlike other mounts that you can just wait til content is old and run it into the ground unsync.

The mentor mount should stay I think that the achievement should be locked based on the ultimate effort of doing all of these roullettes, and its rare I dont even think Ive ever seen anyone on my server with one. But the crowns are cool, but I mean id go for a water symbol but I do enjoy the crowns tho. The issue is that the system is not more specific like you said. I think mentor should be like crafting as is, 60 , 60 and the collectibles, not sure the pvp requirements but Im sure that can be left alone, the basic crown should stay as it is now 300 commendations are one of the other two pvp or crafting but maybe the person doesn't want to wear that extra marker. But for pve I think the 1000 instances is still good but I would say at least clear some of the harder content in the game maybe not savage raid but to at least be able to clear all the extreme primals in the game or something extra to me sense this game is pve focus to wear that crown you should be the best in the game at pve this one should stick out more than the others.

[Atoli]

@mount:
Oh I totally agree that the real mentors (yes I'm gonna say it like that!) are too busy actually being helpful and also actually concerned about what happens in their mentor roulette to do anything that would bring shame to the mentor title.
I think anyone who is active in their server's mentor community can safely say that the real mentors are pretty much all good players, friendly, helpful, and know their stuff.
Those are not the people we get constant complaints about though. The ones everyone is mad about are those that do NOT behave like a mentor should, those who put in literally no effort at all in content to just get pulled through, those who bail on the party in mentor roulette because it's not something that can be beaten in 2 minutes, those who refuse to talk in party chat when newbies ask them how something works, etc. Basically, right now the mentor roulette is just a place for not-real mentors (as in, people who have the requirements but are not actually interested in mentoring) to farm to get the mount. Pretty much the same as how tons of people farmed the crown just for the looks of it, without ever actually intending to do any mentoring.

We are already self-regulating, being self-motivated doesn't seem so bad.
The inclusion of a crown and mount just drew in the completely wrong crowd, and that's why we even have complaints about mentors at all.
While I doubt they'd ever remove a reward that is already in the game, I hope they never add anything like that ever again.
You can't implement a system that relies entirely on the players voluntarily doing things for the sake of others and regulate their behaviour themselves, and then add all that ego stuff to it.
The ones who do not care about others will get lured in, and the ones who were always about helping others will not apprechiate being lumped together with those who aren't.

[vp_cmc]

Because you met the crafting/gathering requirements. There's two ways to become a mentor. Tank/healer/dps to 60, 300 commendations and 100 dungeon instances OR one crafter and one gatherer to 60 and 300 collectables gathered and 100 collectables crafted.

But it means, that I know nothing about how to play tank. I can suggest nothing to new tank except "you should do something, so I stop taking aggro from you".

[LalaRu]

Well, it's 1 of each role at 60, plus 1000 instances complete, plus 300 commendations.

In my opinion, the role condition can stay. but the instances needs to be massively increased, maybe to the 5,000 mark when you get the Lifer II achievement. And commendations should be increased relatively high, either 1,000 or 500. 300 is a bit low.

Higher reqs does not fix the attitude of some people, as higher ilevel does tell nothing about how a player is good at a given role.

As they are, reqs are enough to get a competent player imho.

[ManuelBravo]

While the Mentor program is great I, a lot of people , even though they are mentor status, are terrible at their job and either fate grind, or same dungeon grind. I think they should have a strict system were you need, lets say 6k recommendations, min 2 of every class at 60, and achievement Star rating of minimum 5k. Having perhaps a few relics, which require quite a bit grinding, insures you know your job. Just a thought.

[Vhailor]

Frankly, the Mentor system needs more of an overhaul to help improve its quality. Currently, it assesses only a player's 'experience' (in a very crude fashion), with barely any regard paid to the quality of the player and their general demeanor. That's a problem, because for a Mentor, experience alone isn't sufficient.

I'd propose a larger revamp, one which absorbs the following two ideas:

(1) Mentors should come in tiers. Bronze, Silver, and Gold. There are plenty of players who would make fantastic mentors who don't grind some of the harder content (or, in the OP's case, Healer to 60). There should be Mentor tiers that account for that (with perhaps the Mentor icon being automatically turned off in instances to which it doesn't apply; for example, a Bronze-level mentor might not have their icon showing if they're in an Alexander Savage run).

(2) Mentors should be reviewed. Players in a party with a Mentor (or possibly only 'new players' having the designated status) should be able to quickly flag a Mentor with a negative or positive review at the end of a Duty Finder event. Too many negative reviews should revoke the status (temporarily), with a permanent revocation being allowed for repeated negative reviews. Mentor status cannot be something that, once obtained, no longer factors in to the mindset of the player.

In return for these changes, feel free to reward Mentors with other perks beyond a proprietary Roulette as needed. But they need to be evaluated, and they need to allow for players with significant (but not exhaustive) expertise to get a foot in the door somehow.

[Reinha]

Also, and I think being required to run Mentor Roulettes to maintain your icon should be a thing.

I guess I'd have to give up mentoring then (assuming you meant that one can't be a mentor without an icon). I'm not in it for the mount but to tell newbies in a server-wide channel when they get their chocobo, what cross class skills and retainers are and how they can change their hair color.

[worldofneil]

But it means, that I know nothing about how to play tank.

Ah sorry I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking "how am I a mentor when I don't meet requirements", hence my answer on why, but you were actually stating that you don't meet battle requirements, but it still lets you have the icon etc.