VOIP Solo Que - Cheating?

[Makavelii]

Since I started PvPing again I\\'ve become a little more active in one of the more well known PvP Discords "Team Tryhard" and I like most of you have been adjusting to the recent removal of Chat.. n lately I\\'ve noticed alot of players mostly from the Primal DC that have been hopping on Voice chat if they luckily get Que\\'ed into a Solo 4v4 match together..

While I understand that VOIP is NOT against the TOS, n to be honest I\\'m all for implementing voice chat into the game client since Communication / Coordination is essential in high level Feast Matches.. i personally think that the players that I refrenced earlier are purposely seeking out an advantage (VOIP) to help them win and imo it\\'s just as bad as Cheating or using ACT Callouts

I\\'m curious what everyone\\'s opinions are on this?

[SuperZay]

Party voice chat is done in other pvp games like online shooters and its integral part of these games. Like in Battlefields you can que 'solo' but can talk with your random party members. Or not talk, the choice if you need that advantage is yours. Just because this game doesn't have this feature built-in doesn't make it any more cheating. It's not there for the same old 'possible harassment' reason or just not enough budget/PS3 limitations.
PvP Discord is available to everyone, even for Playstation players who can use it on mobile phone, so if they want voice communication is up to them. The advantage is overrated though, even if you get all 4 players in voice chat you'll still lose against a better team without it.

[Makavelii]

PvP Discord is available to everyone, even for Playstation players who can use it on mobile phone, so if they want voice communication is up to them. The advantage is overrated though, even if you get all 4 players in voice chat you'll still lose against a better team without it.

I disagree, I think it's a pretty significant advantage.. otherwise the players abusing VOIP wouldn't be doing it in the 1st Place.

[Makavelii]

Yes the Discord is available to everyone.. but that is a silly arguement lol not EVERY single person is going to join the Discord or even knows about it lol where the real problem lies is that the players abusing this are knowlingly Using VOIP to gain an advantage over players they're facing.. that arent using it lol

[Pyrali]

We wouldn't have to 'get around' the chat restriction like this if it hadn't been removed in the first place.

People wanting to communicate effectively in a team based mode of competitive play isn't cheating--it's common sense.

All you're getting out of VOIP is what you'd get out of party chat anyway.

[TiaHariberux3]

Well I already saw 4 top players from aether all on soloq voip in the same team and still lost against a so called "meme healer" but yea the advantage is there and idm it when there was a ingame voice chat or at least a chat to use. Yes everyone can get discord but for ppl who got kicked from it its not a option.

[TiramisuMacaron]

I hope VoIP stays around even if they undo the chat change. Matches are must more enjoyable with team communication. I'm using VoIP to enhance my gaming experience, I play team games to play with a team, not a bunch of AI. If I only cared about winning matches, I wouldn't constantly be swapping jobs 3 times a night. Matches where 2-3 people on each team are using VoIP have been more interesting than most matches I have ever played in soloq. Players should be rewarded for good teamwork, and that is exactly what VoIP does. A team of lesser players can beat a team of stronger players because the lesser players actually play as a team.


Let's punish teamwork in a team game and call it cheating.
Replace players with AI, I'm sure most of the community would have more fun that way.

tl;dr A team using VoIP that wins because they are using VoIP deservers to win. Said team is functioning as a team better than a non-VoIP team in a team game.

Edit: Comparing it to callouts is pretty unfair too, callouts are using an electronic response to parsed logs. Parsing logs with 3rd party tools is directly against the ToS. VoIP is using player skill to help awareness, it is actually promoting more teamwork. Even just listening is extremely helpful, which even people with social anxiety can do, and I have done on occasion. The only time I would consider it maybe unfair is if an opponent is deaf, but losing sound queues is already putting that player at a disadvantage. Calibrating for that would be impossible unless all players muted their sound, in which case the deaf person would have an advantage.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

With or without this asinine chat restriction, VoIP usage for PvP is no less fair than it would be for raiding or simply socializing with friends you enjoy playing with. This really shouldn't even be brought into question, especially in the wake of the terrible hinderance to effective team communication that Quick Chat is.

[Zojha]

All you're getting out of VOIP is what you'd get out of party chat anyway.

Not quite - VOIP is an advantage over typing because when you type in chat, your hands are focused on hitting the keys for the words you want to say. When you use VOIP, your hands are still focused on actual gameplay and you don't stand around awkwardly in the middle of a match.

Thus, strictly speaking, it's an advantage over typing and even more so over chat macros. And since that advantage is not built into the actual game, but rather makes use of third party software, it's technically an unfair one. If this game would take competition serious, it would have to ban it and work on a version built into the game instead, which would then become the only legitimate one.

Luckily, it doesn't really take competition all that serious, so it's safe to say it's fair game. Honestly, I don't think even League of Legends takes it "that" serious either outside their hosted tournaments and they're as serious as it gets in online gaming.

[Llus]

Discord has been used by PvPers even before the chat ban, if you've watched any of the fights that have been broadcast you'll see that when friends happen to get on the same team they'll jump into Discord and coordinate their bursts very well. It is a HUGE advantage and to pretend that chat is just as good is being purposefully obtuse. The question from the OP though is what's your opinion / is it cheating / is it as bad as ACT call-outs?


Let's address the ACT call-outs first. The ACT parser call-outs keeps a constant watch on everyone and immediately gives the call-out when anyone buffs for burst. Even with a couple of talented players using Discord (or even chat before it was restricted), there is a delay between noticing the burst and notifying their teammates. ACT doesn't have this limitation. ACT doesn't get distracted. 100% of the time, the call-out is as soon as the client receives the information. This is an unfair advantage in that players no longer have to watch out for bursts since ACT will notify them and this gives a HUGE advantage to PC players because PS3/PS4 players can't use the same tool.

Discord is a free app available to anyone with a smartphone or PC. It's possible that some players don't have a smartphone that would allow them to use Discord and they'll be at a disadvantage much like PC ACT users vs Console. However, because Discord is available to both PC and Console, this is a fairly even playing field for all players. Even if users in solo queue chose to use Discord; they still need to have full battle awareness in order to catch and stop enemy bursts. It is easy to get caught up in the action and miss an enemy burst and even with Discord a missed burst can't be relayed. Before the chat restriction, communication about enemy bursts could also be done in chat and people would usually macro a warning. This was more advantageous than a couple of people using Discord because the message is relayed to the entire team and not just the 2 friends in Discord so those people using macro call-outs in chat had the advantage in this situation.

So, is using Discord cheating? Is it as bad as ACT call-outs? What's my opinion?

Discord is not cheating. What's to prevent two friends from calling each other on their phones or using PS4's built-in party chat or any number of other communication channels to talk with each other when they're on the same team? The real issue here is that SE doesn't provide a built-in VOIP option for the game and that should be addressed; both for raids and PvP

Is Voice Chat (Discord or other) as bad as ACT call-outs? Not at all. Voice chat still requires focus and battle awareness to catch all enemy bursts; with ACT you don't have to worry about keeping an eye on everyone else as ACT will never miss telling you about a burst.

I personally don't use VOIP or other Voice Chat during PVP, however if a VOIP channel were offered in-game I would at least listen in order to coordinate better with my teammates. In my opinion, full chat functionality should be restored and a VOIP channel should be made available. This is a competitive team play mode that requires communication to coordinate and the more you can communicate with your team the more likely you are to get a win.