Suggestion: Changing the Mentor System

[Xianniang]

So, with a lot of people expressing problems with the game's Mentor System recently, there's been a lot of talk about what should be changed to make it better, particularly focusing around its crown symbol and the idea it (or its visibility) should be changed.

But, personally, I feel that the heart of the problem(s) that surrounds the system really isn't about its status icon, so much so it's how the system works in general. Many agree that the requirements for obtaining the Mentor status are far too easy and really have nothing to do about one's ability (or willingness) to tutor. A "mentor's" ability to queue into mentor roulette and/or harass or misinform other players is hardly due to a crown next to their name. It's namely that the system, as it is now, is just too simple and lends itself more as a status of privileges to its "mentors" (extra roulette, achievement mount, etc.) than an actual system to help people.

Granted, obviously, it would take far less work and far less time to just change the crown into something less flashy or indicative of some power hierarchy than to change an entire system. But it's also an idea that aims at a lesser problem (that "mentors" are wearing the status for the wrong reasons), than at a whole problem: that people can acquire this status and abuse it so easily in the first place. It's not that we have to find ways to discourage unfit people from wearing a crown for the wrong reasons, it's that we need the system changed so unfit people cannot simply acquire this status on a whim for the wrong reasons.

After all, anyone can be a "mentor" if they feel like it, because the requirements are for the most part simply "grind out these levels and get the achievements," which are made increasingly easier with each passing update (Palace of the Dead? Exp increase for crafters lv. 1-55? And running the first Ifrit trial unsynced over and over to meet the 1000 trials requirement?). They're requirements that have nothing to do with the actual prospect of mentoring people. "But what about the 300 Player Commendations you need? It makes sense as a mentor requirement, right?" In concept, not actual practice. People comm others for all kinds of reasons - because a person may be funny, because they Raised them when they died, because they were the only person who didn't die, because they're the tank or healer, or even just to get the bonus from that one Challenge Log that requires you to comm a number of people. This requirement also doesn't do much in relation to the Mentor System.

To give some very rough and basic (perhaps idealistic) starting concepts of how (or at least in which direction) the system should be changed, some possible ideas:
- The current Mentor System centers too much around its mentors than it does around the new people it's to help, because the new people don't really get much of a say about its mentors. So, we need to give the sprouts/new people more of a voice about which people (existing or mentors) they feel are appropriate to be mentors; For example, when they clear a dungeon/trial for the first time, give them a way to rate/review any person who really tried to give advice, as an entirely seperate from commendations. It should only be available in Duty Finder parties (perhaps only upon first time clear that would give a bonus?) to avoid those who would otherwise exploit this actively to get Mentor status by repeating easy instances with friends (or bots) and being rated by them instead.

- A person who meets a certain amount/grade of ratings/reviews can receive an automated Moogle mail (or a quest bubble? or something?) that would inform them that the community has recognized them eligible to be publicly seen as a mentor and give them the option (maybe a quest) to attain mentor status.
- Perhaps make it more of an evaluation system in general. In this current system, when a person acquires mentor status, there is very little way to have their status revoked if they abuse it. Maybe every 45 days, if a person already has the Mentor status but doesn't evaluate positively, it should be revoked; a mentor who hasn't played in 45+ days (or new patch) and so needs to catch up with the new content or refresh on basics and would otherwise have the Returner status should have it revoked until they're caught up; a requirement to becoming a mentor or having a formerly-revoked mentor status be reinstated can be based on having/keeping a positive evaluation.

- Essentially, this is meant to make the Mentor status/icon more of a "this person has opted for the visibility of having been recognized by the community as a helpful person" symbol, because a person who genuinely intends to help will try to help regardless of whether they have the Mentor status, while the status should just be more of a beacon that tells a new player, "you can ask this person for help."
-Basically, make the requirements overall based by the community rather than grinding a bunch of levels/trials and getting a bunch of achievements/comms.

All in all, they're just ideas; maybe other people have some better suggestions? In the end, I really just wanted to say, we need more about this Mentor system changed than just its garish crown icon to really address its problems.

[Big_Panda]

First, to get around the character limitations, you can just edit your initial post. At least that is what I have been told.

Second, rating mentors is not a new idea and has been suggested before. The common response is that it is open to abuse.

Imagine you being a helpful mentor and trying to tell the new player he is not doing his basic rotation. The sprout does not take criticism well and gives you a poor rating.

It is too difficult to make an effective rating system. Should the mentor always give out advice, even when unsolicited? How should a player review a mentor if he does not know the given advice is good/bad?

Good helpful players will keep helping, crown or not. Bad mentors will not care after they somehow grind out the required ratings for the crown.

[Xianniang]

Thanks for the editing tip.

And yes, it's a valid point in that making an effective rating system would be difficult, if even impossible due to subjectivity and uncertainty. Even just to rate a mentor's attitude and intent would be questionable.

Among a player base of hundreds of thousands of players and characters, coming up with an adequate enough system alone would be difficult, but I've been wondering more so than anything if anyone had ideas in general beyond simply changing the crown icon.

[bswpayton]

So, with a lot of people expressing problems with the game's Mentor System recently, there's been a lot of talk about what should be changed

The fact that people keep saying that 1000 instances is nothing is driving me crazy I have 800 commedations, and I have done under 820 instances. I have been playin sense this summer, so to really believe that all mentors simply unsync ifrit normal is just stupid to me. The problem is people forget that there are different type of mentors when people realize this maybe we will have less threads like this .

Crafting mentor, should a crafting mentor be amazing in pve no its not required, pvp mentors should they be amazing in pve why they are good at pvp thats what their symbol means. The basic crown it means that a requirement was meet in any of the three fields , pve, pvp, or crafting which means that its also not required to be amazing at pve. But the pve mentor yes thats the only one I can say they should know how to do some amazing pve thats the only one because its a pve mentor. The other mentors arent saying wit their crown look at me Im an amazing player and I will destroy anything pve it just means that they want to help other players.

[Xianniang]

The fact that people keep saying that 1000 instances is nothing is driving me crazy I have 800 commedations, and I have done under 820 instances. I have been playin sense this summer, so to really believe that all mentors simply unsync ifrit normal is just stupid to me. The problem is people forget that there are different type of mentors when people realize this maybe we will have less threads like this .

Crafting mentor, should a crafting mentor be amazing in pve no its not required, pvp mentors should they be amazing in pve why they are good at pvp thats what their symbol means. The basic crown it means that a requirement was meet in any of the three fields , pve, pvp, or crafting which means that its also not required to be amazing at pve. But the pve mentor yes thats the only one I can say they should know how to do some amazing pve thats the only one because its a pve mentor. The other mentors arent saying wit their crown look at me Im an amazing player and I will destroy anything pve it just means that they want to help other players.

It's not to say that all mentors do that to meet the 1000 instance requirement, it's the fact you can just keep repeating the 5 seconds it takes to defeat unsynced Ifrit and it will count towards that requirement, and anyone who just wants the crown could and would do that.

Secondly, there's a thing about what the symbol is intended to mean vs what some people actually wear it for, regardless of the fact there's different types of mentors. As it's been said before, people who want to help will try to help regardless of whether they have or wear the crown, but there are people who've been harassed and bullied and talked down by some who wear crowns and go into Mentor roulette with no actual intention of mentoring. Mentors as a whole tend to have a bad reputation because of things like this. It's not a matter of different mentors having different crowns to help with different things; the requirements for getting the a crown are too simple, and even those who aren't "amazing" with whatever their crown would imply can still easily get it without the expertise if they simply did the grind and wear it without meaning to say "I have knowledge of this field I can part on you" or even just "I want to help you," rather they simply want to say "I want to show off this status."

[bswpayton]

It's not to say that all mentors do that to meet the 1000 instance requirement, it's the fact you can just keep repeating the 5 seconds it takes to defeat unsynced Ifrit and it will count towards that requirement, and anyone who just wants the crown could and would do that.
s."

Out of all the mentors that we have I highly doubt that that many players would run ifrit normal that many times to become a mentor. The thing is , that se gave us a description on what a mentor should be, and they gave us four different crowns its players fault that they dont pay attention to what a certain crown is saying.

Im a mentor I obtained mine by crafting gsm to 60 miner to 60 , 400 collectables I started off with the crafting hammer on my head but then I just really got into wanting to do content more than craft so I changed my crown to the basic crown. So to me all that crown means is Im here to help I follow the description of what SE ask for I craft stuff for players, help run dungeons, trials, roulette with new players I frequest the nn and chime in when I know answers to questions that new players have. What else should be expected ?

I dont get toxic with players even if someone makes a toxic comment about me i dont say anything half of the time. IF anything players are toxic and after playing this game that the community is great is just a lie the community is toxic but not an overwhelming majority of people. Its enough players that play that are cool to where it makes you enjoy the game , but make no mistake this game is full of rude people and selfish people and thats not a mentor problem. It sucks that those type of players just so happen to get a crown, but it in no way shape or form would change the rudeness of some of the players that play this game.

[Xianniang]

Out of all the mentors that we have I highly doubt that that many players would run ifrit normal that many times to become a mentor. The thing is , that se gave us a description on what a mentor should be, and they gave us four different crowns its players fault that they dont pay attention to what a certain crown is saying.

Im a mentor I obtained mine by crafting gsm to 60 miner to 60 , 400 collectables I started off with the crafting hammer on my head but then I just really got into wanting to do content more than craft so I changed my crown to the basic crown. So to me all that crown means is Im here to help I follow the description of what SE ask for I craft stuff for players, help run dungeons, trials, roulette with new players I frequest the nn and chime in when I know answers to questions that new players have. What else should be expected ?

I dont get toxic with players even if someone makes a toxic comment about me i dont say anything half of the time. IF anything players are toxic and after playing this game that the community is great is just a lie the community is toxic but not an overwhelming majority of people. Its enough players that play that are cool to where it makes you enjoy the game , but make no mistake this game is full of rude people and selfish people and thats not a mentor problem. It sucks that those type of players just so happen to get a crown, but it in no way shape or form would change the rudeness of some of the players that play this game.

Yes, naturally it all boils down to people being people and the Mentor system itself is just another thing where some people will abuse it. People will help if they want to help or be toxic if they want to be toxic, and new people have other resources to look to for help. I'm not saying the Mentor system is some origin of toxicity or changing it would usher in a new age of peace and wonder, rather I'm wondering how the system itself can be improved compared to how it is now and what others may have thought of, even if it's more of a minor improvement alongside changing its icon to a watering can.

[Alex_LoneWolf]

Although I will agree that 1000 instances is a lot, I do agree that the Mentor system needs a huge overhaul.

I can think of several people on my server and that I've ran into that are just really bad mentors and wouldn't dare let them be alone with people to teach them mechanics or about their class.

Most days I actually end up chatting with people in my Free Company chat about tips and tricks and even mechanics in fights. I get a lot of questions about how to do stuff that the mentors could answer themselves. I'm not complaining about me having to answer them, but it's just proof that lots of people will go to their FC first right now instead of going to mentors, which is a shame since the system is a good idea on paper, just bad in actual practice.