"At the moment we are working to get rid of the gender lock for bunny suits for men."

[Texa]

But you don't see NPCs running around in bikinis or wedding dresses, either.

you do see them in metallic pigheads though

i'm so glad se cares enough about the lore to deny men bunny ears while npcs have metallic pigheads.

[Rokke]

I find a man with masculinity attractive and/or comfortable to be around. I do not find a man with feminity and dressed as such attractive, only uncomfortable to be around.

Which is fine. You do you and all that jazz.

Saying we can't/shouldn't have something because - y o u - find it distasteful is silly because what you dislike might be different from what I dislike, or what the poster above me dislikes, or what the OP dislikes. The idea of a casino bunny outfit for dudes obviously wasn't too abhorrent an idea to the devs or to the cheering people at fanfest.

If you don't like it: do not fanta to a male, do not spend your mgp on it, and definitely do not glamour your gear to it. For the people that wanted it? Let them have fun. By the following patch everyone will have a new glamour anyway

[Nestama]

But telling us for over a year now "We're looking into it!" makes me lose my rspect, I'm really sorry. Even if they came forward now and said "Okay, listen, we thought about this and we dont like the idea" would be totally fine for me. But "Please look forward to us maaaaybe removing a tiny female-only tag one day" feels... well, like a bad joke by now.

One day, the Post-Moogle Cap will be dyable... that was another thing they were 'looking into' around a year (or so?) ago.

The "male bunnysuit" should be a butler suit, not a dress, anyway.

No, it should be a Chippendale.

No. I'm saying it's just as ludicrous to say men can't wear pink because it isn't masculine, as it is to require male players to play only male characters, and female players to only play female characters.

Which is hilarious, as pink was originally considered to be a masculine colour (while blue was feminine).

[Nirokun]

That's also absurd....I have no problem with people choosing to play as the opposite gender, and that has nothing to do with crossdressing. If someone wants to play as a male, they should embrace clothes aesthetically designed for males. Playing a male to dress like a female is counterintuitive and I imagine it's something only a minority of people do or find attractive.

You really shouldn't assume though. If womens' voting patterns in the recent election in the US didn't convince you that we're capable of being at least somewhat conservative in certain ways, I don't know what would. If an interest in crossdressing is something we looked for in men in the majority, maybe it would be more accepted worldwide. But it's not. I wonder why?

I find a man with masculinity attractive and/or comfortable to be around. I do not find a man with feminity and dressed as such attractive, only uncomfortable to be around. Is it weird to be that way as a woman nowadays or something? Good to know that being hetero-normative is unprecedented around here.

Why is it that somehow you get to draw the line on what is acceptable, and what is not?

Why is it acceptable for a man to assume the appearance of a female in a virtual world, which is nothing like him in the real world, but there's something wrong with a man playing dress-up in a videogame with a male character? The former man even answering to a woman's name? How does that fly with you?

You know, kids play dress-up worldwide because clothes are clothes. Some people like to wear things I would never wear, but if it makes them happy and all the necessary bits are covered to maintain a level of decency, what's the harm? You really ONLY have to worry about representing yourself, what other people do, so long as it isn't harmful to others, is none of your business. You have no moral ground to dictate what others can and cannot do. The world's-a-changin'.

I certainly hold conservative views, if that matters. I'm a very traditional person, but I also recognize that what happens outside of my life is none of my business. You should have learned to mind your own business when you were young, it's really nothing new. What other people wear in a videogame, so long as it isnt damaging to the franchise (a certain thread about job-specific gear comes to mind), be it a gag or not, is none of your business.

Whether or not you find a feminine man palatable, again, is none of your business. Here's an easy question to help you:

"Am I involved with this person enough to make decisions on their behalf (young child, significant other, elderly parents)?"

If the answer is yes, go make decisions in their best interests. If not, mind your business.

[Alleo]

Well everyone has their opinions and I do find it strange to see a man in a dress since its rare and kinda unusual clothing for a male. Yet I would not go around and say that they should not dress that way. I mean I find females wearing only sexual clothes also not that nice but hey if they want to run around like that, well all power to them. As long as nobody comes and wants to force their way of wearing clothes onto me they can do whatever they want. (At least in a video game, in RL going around in only a bikini would be against some rules in some places but yeah RL is different in a lot of ways anyway)

[Serilda]

I find a man with masculinity attractive and/or comfortable to be around. I do not find a man with feminity and dressed as such attractive, only uncomfortable to be around. Is it weird to be that way as a woman nowadays or something? Good to know that being hetero-normative is unprecedented around here.

Some people do glamour that way so please feel free to hang around them, or make a character which perfectly suits your aesthetic. We're all different, and the game gives us the tools to express our personal tastes in many different ways. This has nothing to do with oppressing you for being heteronormative at all; you voluntarily came into a thread clearly described in its topic (for once!) and started flaming everyone for asking for something the game's team explicitly already told us we could have. You're the aggressor here.

I think the bunny suit people have in mind for men here involves fishnets, maybe heels, frilly sleeves, a bunny tail....etc, right? That's by all standards very feminine. A butler-like suit as someone mentioned would not be and would be acceptable to me.

I think you will struggle to find a single post in this thread where we ask for an exact carbon copy of the female bunny suits; we all agreed a Chippendale-style 'eye candy for those who like men' costume with the ears would be a perfect fit for this situation (and very, very easy to do). The thing you're arguing against was discussed in the previous dozen iterations of this thread and not here. The fact that this 'masculine bunny' outfit is taking so long in the first place is allegedly because they're trying to make the male equivalent nice and high quality.

Heck, if I want to make myself unappealing to you once I have bunny ears I can use the game's countless existing high heels, frilly sleeves, tight stockings and skirts for men to make a daring outfit any time I like. Bunny ears and tails are inherently neither male nor female in the first place so I'm just going to ignore the fact that those were even listed.

Now, I did separately mention that if the girls got an Edda dress too I would expect something as well, even if it was the Edda dress for men. I stand by that. I can make parts of that outfit work, for sure. However, if they want to make a male gothic-style fashion outfit instead, I am 100% happy with that solution. What I am most definitely not happy about is continually lagging behind players with female characters on glamour for reasons which make absolutely no sense (S-E is generally speaking very inclusive and cool about this stuff).

Ah yes, the good old "Your opinion is different than mine so you must be trolling" shtick.

It's more like 'you come in here to derail a perfectly reasonable thread requesting a status update on a topic that has been discussed before by telling us all we're all perverts and unsightly'. If that isn't trolling, it's difficult to know what is. If you irrationally detest men wearing frilly clothes so much, please make a separate thread about that and let this one serve its intended purpose for status updates on the promised Gold Saucer costume for men. It's already happening so the time for telling us we're a minority of sick freaks has long passed.

Not at all feminine, just historically masculine. Appropriate for his gender for the setting. A guy in a tight, frilly, actually feminine looking, etc miniskirt with fishnet stockings would not be. It would be feminine clothes on a male by both modern and historical standards.

The outfit the huntmaster wears has the appearance of a shaman of sorts. Also historically masculine or unisex.

If we're going historical, all of these things have been famously worn by men from major cultures across the world and been perfectly acceptable, either now or in the past:

Skirts of all lengths (still worn today in many cultures)
Frills (likewise)
Ruffs
Thongs
Robes ('dresses' to some)
Ribbons
Stockings
High-heeled shoes
Bows
Patent leather
Costumes based on animals (e.g. bunny ears)
Shorts like the ones we were actually asking for in this thread before you started putting words into our mouths
The colour pink

If we're going to block male characters from all skirts and frills, may I suggest gender locking all non-skirts/non-dresses away from those with female characters so we can all live in some kind of strictly gender-normative dystopia together?

Oh, but women are allowed to wear trousers and suits in your culture today, right? Too bad, in many others the sight of a woman in a suit (let alone a bikini) would cause mass outrage at worst, or conservatives reaching for their smelling salts at best. Your culture is not the culture of the entire world. And it's certainly not the culture of Eorzea, where a man can be legitimately expected to wear the Darkhold caster top with skimpy boxer shorts while levelling, or sculpted tights and halfrobes which leave nothing to the imagination; neither really fits a rugged, masculine aesthetic. The Void Ark healing set looks like a wedding dress, the Demon set of healing from CT makes it look as though I have curves in all of the right places (for a woman), and I'm not even going to start on the Shiva-inspired Lore set on a man, with its nipple-covering silver star and stiletto ankle boots. The BLM 2.x PVP gear is a highly eroticised design with fetish high heels and a navel-baring lace top, while the WHM/AST/SCH/SMN versions are all stunning ball gowns. We have fetish thigh-high stockings men can wear (tank only) and a dyeable glamour mini skirt which looks far more like a school uniform fashion item than something a gladiator would wear. The SMN Esoteric set gives every single Lalafell in the game an uninhibited view of my pants and toned upper thighs, and transforms into sexy blue leg ribbons if I remove the shoes. The AST Esoteric set is a dress and a veil which was deliberately designed to invoke a feminine aesthetic (source: notes in the official artbook for HW). Male players with male characters have often moaned that it's nigh impossible to play a caster or healer without being decked in lace and frills from head to toe. Is it any wonder we're confused when a handful of items are arbitrarily held back to honour imaginary gender norms?

You are straight up playing the wrong game if you don't want any guys to be able to wear girly-looking clothes. And you're in the wrong place if you want to complain. We just want the bunny outfit we were told was coming. Thanks.

[No2631]

No, problem not solved, because it breaks the aesthetic of the game because crossdressing is pretty much unseen anywhere other than on players.

Actually there is a fair number of female NPCs who cross-dress with a best man's suit, for example. I don't think this line of reasoning is valid, though; and this is coming from someone who doesn't like cross-dressing either. Mage gear quite often has a feminine tint to it, with the hailstorm set for example featuring high heels for men alongside the... less than masculine rest of the gear set.

It's not valid to complain that it's perfectly reasonable for the Warrior of Light to glamour the Emperor's New Set onto himself and not break immersion, when it would break immersion if that very same Warrior of Light glamoured a dress onto his armour. In both cases, the Warrior of Light is dressing in a fiercely a-typical way for the Eorzean world... you'd almost think both would break immersion, or neither would.

"But it's glamour in the first case!!" and it is so in the second case as well. I see no reason why the citizens of Eorzea should look any weirder upon a man in a dress than they should on the pig-headed Lalafell in his underwear.


EDIT:
After looking at your other thread re: repair NPC in dungeons... why wouldn't that break immersion? The dungeons we enter are all dangerous dens of evil. I'm quite sure no one dared enter Haukke Manor when we did, so why would a crafter NPC wander in and set up shop? I think it'd reflect very negatively on the world if its NPCs were looking to make a quick buck out of us trying to infiltrate Nidhogg's Ayrie by setting up shop inside.


Why does the argument for immersion apply to glamours, but not to the location of NPCs? I understand that if someone wants something it's important that you share your opinion on why their wants are undesirable (heavens forbid we let the peasantry enjoy things we don't), but you could stand to be more consistent.

[Vexander]

The male version should be chippendales-esque. Like a collar with a bow and no shirt. And pants with a bunny tail. And shoes with bows on them. That would be equivalent to the female outfit.

That'd be acceptable in my book. As long as its Male Only. Because whenever sets get introduced it tends to be Female only and then Gender Neutral, and I'm getting very sick and tired of that when it is not necessary.

[RaijinSupreme]

Crossdressing however breaks the aesthetic of the game AND makes people genuinely uncomfortable. It's the mere sight of it that does so.

WOW!

some people in these forums man.

I guess we should do away with any kind of homosexual relationships, and anyone with a dark skin complexion as well, you know, for the sake of all those people who would be just utterly disgusted by the sight of such things.

To hell with freedom of expression. To hell with tolerance. I don't care if this is just a video game, we need not have that kind of nonsense here to protect all those who would prefer for a man to be a man, and a woman to be a woman traditionally.

I didn't really think I'd come across such a bigoted mindset in this game, but maybe i was regarding our player base too highly.

[GMERC]

Boy the current opposition opinion in this thread really went in a direction I didn't want it to, and I definitely don't stand with any of it. Cross dressing options aren't a problem, my distaste for them stems only from the fact that I don't feel it's wholly necessary to spend development time on making everything unisex. Sure wish that's what others had as their reasons to oppose it instead of this silliness!