Please can we be allowed have more macros

[Astyrah]

Not to say that the system shouldn't be improved, but there is a workaround

oh hey thank you for this. TIL. i will try this. but still we shouldn't have to rely on workarounds like this

[Altena]

I use macros for a lot of UI elements (such as hiding hotbars etc)..
In addition to this they are very useful for the random Off-GCD skills such as Cover, Goad, Shadewalker, Smokescreen, Warden's Paean etc - so you can use the "Mouse over" targeting system rather than having to physically switch targets..

Another use for them are for jobs like WAR where Defiance and Deliverance alters the skills you have access to. My stances are macro'd to switch Fell Cleave with IB, Decimate with Steel Cyclone and vice verser - so I do not have to find 2 additional keybinds just because I am in a different stance..

There are absolutely good uses for macros on battle classes, beyond crafting and UI, just have to be smart about them and not chew up that precious GCD delay with macroing GCD based skills.

With as many jobs in the game as we have, plus crafting macros, UI macros etc - I can totally see how you can fill all of those slots up.
(I was getting close before I had to format my computer and didn't back it all up).

Though you absolutely shouldn't be using them for GCD based skills.

Considering the macro system automatically rounds it up, so that 2.5 becomes 3, you're losing DPS if you're using it in combat. Even for macros like, say, Berserk, letting your [bard] know you popped it for and hoping for a paean, you will probably run into the issue of the macro not queuing properly, still dropping DPS in some form or another.

Outside of crafting, obnoxious "MECHANICS ARE HAPPENING!", hunt linking or what have you, there's no efficient use of macros. You really don't need more than 100 as many would be crafting rotations become outdated.

Not true.

This only applies to GCD based skills. Hitting a macro between GCDs does not affect the queue system (which is where the problem lies). The issue is that macros cannot be queued.

For example..

If you have a macro that uses a GCD skill, the skill will activate before the GCD completes - rendering the macro a failure and the skill doesn't activate. Hence the need to "spam" a GCD based macro in order for it to activate. Since this is the case, server latency takes into effect and your action will be delayed 300-500ms after the GCD completred.

Off GCD skills however do not have this rule, as the off-GCD based skill CAN be activated while you have an active GCD (provided your character is not slightly animation locked by the previous skill). Therefore you can hit a macro and the off-GCD skill will activate during the GCD. You can then queue a non-macro GCD based skill afterwards without any detrimental effects with server latency.

[JunseiKei]

Macros are good for healers to DPS enemies without untargeting the tank.

I wouldn't use macros for DPS at all. You will still run into issues.

Macros for mitigation tools, like Virus or Disable, are pretty handy, especially when you know you'll be healing the tank after. A simple...

/macroicon "Virus"
/merror off
/ac "Virus" <tt>
/ac "Virus" <t>

or

/micon "Disable"
/merror off
/ac "Disable" <tt>
/ac "Disable" <t>

...makes it so I don't need to switch from DPSing to mitigate or switch from the tank to target the boss to mitigate with the same slot being used. Even then, I find myself mashing it between GCDs. The skill does not apply unless I hit the button at the perfect moment.

Not true.

This only applies to GCD based skills. Hitting a macro between GCDs does not affect the queue system (which is where the problem lies). The issue is that macros cannot be queued.

For example..

If you have a macro that uses a GCD skill, the skill will activate before the GCD completes - rendering the macro a failure and the skill doesn't activate. Hence the need to "spam" a GCD based macro in order for it to activate. Since this is the case, server latency takes into effect and your action will be delayed 300-500ms after the GCD completred.

Off GCD skills however do not have this rule, as the off-GCD based skill CAN be activated while you have an active GCD (provided your character is not slightly animation locked by the previous skill). Therefore you can hit a macro and the off-GCD skill will activate during the GCD. You can then queue a non-macro GCD based skill afterwards without any detrimental effects with server latency.

Right, but that's just putting in more input delay because you're either mashing your macro, since it doesn't queue, or making sure you don't hit it during animation lock.

[Altena]

Right, but that's just putting in more input delay because you're either mashing your macro, since it doesn't queue, or making sure you don't hit it during animation lock.

Errr no? Normal non-macro skills also have an input delay - this is why the queue system was put in place for GCD based skills to begin with. People were unable to truly chain GCD skills because of that delay before the queue system existed. Hitting an off GCD skill is the same, whether you use a macro or not, simply because it does not delay your GCD.

It doesn't matter if you spam 10 times a second or press it once. The macro will go off on the first available slot after the mini animation lock, exactly the same as if you were to hit the skill normally. You don't magically generate input delay just by spamming a macro of an off-GCD skill compared with the normal action from the menu.

The whole reason it's a DPS loss to use macros on GCD based skills is purely because there is no queue system for them. The "first available" time to use a GCD skill is when the GCD comes off cooldown, which would therefore delay the start of the GCD by your ping and server response time etc etc - however this doesn't apply to off-GCD skills as they can be used during the GCD, with the only limiting factor is the mini-animation lock in which case is exactly the same as hitting the skill normally without the macro..

In addition to this, a lot of skills that I mentioned previously (for example, Shadewalker, Smokescreen, Goad), it is actually arguably a net gain, as in order to use these skills without a mouseover macro you would have to switch OFF your main target (the boss) in order to use it. This not only has the potential to force you to miss an auto-attack, but is rather clunky and you will likely not get it off in time before your GCD ends.

Finally, the difference between 500ms for 1 skill every minute or longer (for practically all of the skills I mentioned) is a damage loss of the tiniest proportion. Over a 10 minute fight, that's only 2-3 GCD's.. If you were to macro a full combo? That will absolutely be a DPS loss. Macroing Zerk with a /p notification? Or Tank stances with hotbar action allocations? Yeah nah.. That kind of stuff doesn't effect your DPS at all.

Though all of that being said, the only skills I use macros for are-

Defiance, Deliverance, Shadewalker, Smokescreen, Goad, Cover, Warden's Paean, Flaming Arrow/Salted Earth (sometimes)
When I cared to heal, I used to use mouseover for single target heals as I felt that the convenience of not having to specifically target anyone, outweighed the delay you would get.. Though I would likely change that opinion a bit if I ever went back to healing any serious content.

[JunseiKei]

~snip~

Ugh. Okay, this is where I will say we will agree to disagree, simply because personal experience [and raid members who have complained about this issue] tell me otherwise.

I literally just made an oGCD macro, Berserk actually, to test it. Using the macro and having /ac "Berserk" spammed a minimum of 8 lines, the macro didn't apply the skill, but the text appeared, roughly 1 out of 11 times. Roughly. Some were more. Some were less. I can't even tell you if I was just slow on some of them because I was getting bored testing this out, so I [subconsciously] allowed more leeway than I normally would. Human error is a thing to consider, both having the macro work and not. Either way, once out of so many times is more than I like, considering the issue is just completely nonexistent when not using macros.

I also know for a fact that when macroing skills like Shadowflare and Flaming Arrow, you're clipping your total range short. I had made a macro for both of those skills; I didn't notice the cut range until I was doing Sephirot EX. I wasn't able to stand as far back as I'd have liked with either skill macro and confirmed this keeping to the same spot and switching out to my non macro skill. My skill was no longer invalid and let me place it down. It was a little disappointing, as I am a little slower using ground targets like that, but having to move to be in range to use that macro means I am missing a cast elsewhere. Ergo, a DPS loss in a fight where positions are fairly important. No thank you; I just learned to hover my mouse where I wanted it faster.

This isn't even getting into where a boss needs to be moved, placing those AoEs down squarely in the boss's hitbox may not be the best of ideas (A10S pops into mind). The skill only needs to overlap a part of the hitbox.

For me, any damage loss that I can otherwise prevent is simply unwelcome.

[randysquirrel]

Please not this tired old argument again

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I use mouse over macros for healing. My response time is far and away better using mouseover than trying to target and heal.

[worldofneil]

My response time is far and away better using mouseover than trying to target and heal.

I don't know how you're targetting, but personally I just press the F1-F8 key for the person then the key for whatever cure spell I'm using. As long as they're in range I don't even need to move the camera to see them. That's a personal preference of course, but it works very well for me. I also combine that F-key with "lock on" so I can see where someone is if needed (as it'll turn my camera to face them) and that can also be followed up with W/autorun etc to move towards them with very little effort.

Switching from tank to target or target to tank I'll often use target-of-target which I've got set on the "T" key. I don't know if that's the default key or if I changed it though.

It's another personal preference, but I find if I change the default sort order to tank/dps/heal I know that the tank will always be F2 (and F3 in 8-man content) and the other healer (if 8-man etc) will always be F8. Obviously that doesn't work so well in non-standard parties, but I've found it incredibly useful.

[ErikMynhier]

You should not be using macros to cast spells in a sequence or use weapon skill combos for you. Ever. Learn your job and press your keys yourself.

Sometimes its not because we didn't "learn our job". Some of us have physical limitations, in my case I loss a lot of dexterity in my right hand about a year after I started playing. If it wasn't for macros I would not be able to play this game.

I do hope they improve the system because I agree with you, it sucks. Fixing the rounding to the nearest second would be great.