Shatter

[FreyaKrescent]

mostly people complained about slaughter due to the small map. if it was bigger and wasn't forced to fight ontop 90% of the game it would be golden. Shatter on the other hand... is huge.. and ice is spreaded all through the map ......

[AdamZ]

mostly people complained about slaughter due to the small map. if it was bigger and wasn't forced to fight ontop 90% of the game it would be golden. Shatter on the other hand... is huge.. and ice is spreaded all through the map ......

But in something like slaughter, it only makes sense to have a small area. There is no motive to go off over the map to other areas, or break off from main group, or spread your team out. Just look at 8v8 feast, that is a much bigger map then 4v4 yet outside of going for boxes on the outer part, all the fighting takes place in the 4v4 area basically (other then knocking people down to lower level).

[Lisieta]

But in something like slaughter, it only makes sense to have a small area. There is no motive to go off over the map to other areas, or break off from main group, or spread your team out.

This doesn't make sense, though. If you want a mode where "PVP matters", why would you encourage teams to spread out across a wide area? Slaughter's tiny top map was EXACTLY what forced people to PVP, instead of just running away or "waiting in mid for ice", like they do with Shatter. And as AdamZ pointed out, trying to arbitrarily make use of a "larger map" by adding random objectives to it just does exactly what everyone has been complaining about with Shatter...more focus on running away to PVE.

The top area for slaughter is fine for 24 man matches but way too small for 72 man. Would have been nice if the 72-man death match battle ground is like maybe triple the size of that top area.

[loreleidiangelo]

mostly people complained about slaughter due to the small map. if it was bigger and wasn't forced to fight ontop 90% of the game it would be golden. Shatter on the other hand... is huge.. and ice is spreaded all through the map ......

This doesn't make sense, though. If you want a mode where "PVP matters", why would you encourage teams to spread out across a wide area? Slaughter's tiny top map was EXACTLY what forced people to PVP, instead of just running away or "waiting in mid for ice", like they do with Shatter. And as AdamZ pointed out, trying to arbitrarily make use of a "larger map" by adding random objectives to it just does exactly what everyone has been complaining about with Shatter...more focus on running away to PVE.

People like to reference Seize as some sort of great tactical map with tons of PVP going on, but the fact is, a lot of the time it was a huge waste to even bother going to some of the tomeliths, simply due to their location or distance. Caves and the two super high-up tomeliths were stupid defensible, and some like beach were so far off in BFE that by the time you reached them they were mostly drained. A mode LIKE Seize, but with a much smaller map and two-team only gameplay would probably be a decent battleground, but by that logic there would be ways to "fix" Shatter, too.

FWIW, people complained about Slaughter because it ultimately boiled down to "which premade brought the better healers and has more of their BLMs on VOIP to time Cometeor drops". It's like when they took away Cleric Stance because 8 JP WHM Holylol trains were borken as heck in Secure - rather than doing something about multiple Cometeors, the developers tried to create maps where the spaces aren't so enclosed as to allow that to be a viable strategy. The takeaway from that, though, is that bigger maps encourage LESS PVP, which isn't really what people want to play a battleground for.

[FreyaKrescent]

Nobody enjoys being quad Lb'd by a caster limit break. Yes i had fun stacking with premades etc but honestly theres no room to run on top. thats where most people dislike slaughter. Casters dominated slaughter. now if the top of the map was A bit bigger that would of been better for most people.

[Magic-Mal]

"which premade brought the better healers and has more of their BLMs on VOIP to time Cometeor drops". It's like when they took away Cleric Stance because 8 JP WHM Holylol trains were borken as heck in Secure - rather than doing something about multiple Cometeors, the developers tried to create maps where the spaces aren't so enclosed as to allow that to be a viable strategy.

Instead of fixing BLM's Cometeor they should instead just remove the ability to go premade already and no one will ever have a problem.

Premades are fun and all but it's also not fun standing no chance. It's not fair in the slightest going against a full team of coordinated players with voice communication while you have a bunch of randoms. It ruins Frontlines. It's like having an instance where it's a damage contest and whatever team does the most damage on the dummy wins. But 8-man premades are allowed to queue up against random teams.

It needs to be removed. Or at the very least, 1 partner. Like Feast. That would be fair. And if it's needed, have 24m( 8v8v8) premade Full Party Frontlines separately.

[Eul]

Instead of fixing BLM's Cometeor they should instead just remove the ability to go premade already and no one will ever have a problem.

Premades are fun and all but it's also not fun standing no chance. It's not fair in the slightest going against a full team of coordinated players with voice communication while you have a bunch of randoms. It ruins Frontlines.

It needs to be removed. Or at the very least, 1 partner. Like Feast. That would be fair.

I agree with this, having premades is not fun at all. Like it's ridiculous they can dominate 2 GCs at same time. And I also agree at least they can party with max 1 or 2 man.

[loreleidiangelo]

I agree with this, having premades is not fun at all. Like it's ridiculous they can dominate 2 GCs at same time. And I also agree at least they can party with max 1 or 2 man.

This would also be an acceptable alternative, yeah. I'm just trying to point out that the problem with Slaughter wasn't necessarily Slaughter's design, it was how stupidly effective Cometeor stacking was. Slaughter was actually a mode where a TON of PVP happened, it was just hugely tilted PVP where people only attained kills through a total cheeseball strategy rather than simply being good at strategy.

EDIT: To be fair though, people in Slaughter would stack Cometeors even if they were queuing solo. It wasn't exactly a strategy that required voice communication - you saw an orange circle drop on the ground, you dropped yours too and hoped you nabbed all the kills from it. I still maintain that a true PVP map that forced skirmishes in small map areas would have issues with Cometeor either way, simply because it's a huge radius and does a respectable amount of damage.

There are multiple problems with PVP in this game, really. I enjoy playing it, but it's hard to narrow down the plethora of issues to which ones have a "higher" priority.