Shatter

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Guess People attacking ice is player vs player right? ...

The core idea is "People competing against each other to score from a damage-based objective". People play it to a safe extreme and only try to attack the ice and retreat to safety besides.

If anything, Shatter itself isn't wrong. The ways people try to play it is.

[aeoncs]

If anything, Shatter itself isn't wrong. The ways people try to play it is.

That's false though, players are encouraged to play it that way because it's the considerably safer option unless you're part of a premade. There's a reason why such a game mode doesn't exist in any of the more successful PvP MMORPGs. If an objective in PvP revolves around doing damage, it should be damage dealt to players, e.g. Capture The Flag or player-oriented objective control (pick up and defend/survive).

Having fun with Shatter is perfectly fine but pretending that it isn't a badly designed PvP mode is just silly.

[Evangela]

Didn't SE say that they acknowledged the feedbacks about how Shatter feels more like PvE than PvP and they would look into it?

[FreyaKrescent]

Giving ideas to whats needed is never a bad thing though

[SainCheese]

Shatter is garbage. I've been on both ends of the barrel too. Have literally jumped up and down in front of a healer for 10 seconds while I die to dots on WAR. Said healer never targetted me.. or anyone lol. But I've also killed plenty of players who were attack ice right in front of their healers who never bothered to cast. It practically requires no skill at all and rewards the players who abuse a system of free rides: "gimme light, gimme mount, brb gotta watch dis YouTube video of somebody actually pvping!"

If they really wanted to spice things up they could keep an alliance, add mechanics and turn the crystal into a shape-shifting ball and have it do stuff too.. Take away "friendly fire" and call it a day. (Extreme sarcasm, WoD reference for those who would take this way to seriously)

[FreyaKrescent]

i agreee.. Like how secure Node used an Aoe on everyone and healers actually had to heal etc

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

That's false though, players are encouraged to play it that way because it's the considerably safer option unless you're part of a premade. There's a reason why such a game mode doesn't exist in any of the more successful PvP MMORPGs. If an objective in PvP revolves around doing damage, it should be damage dealt to players, e.g. Capture The Flag or player-oriented objective control (pick up and defend/survive).

Having fun with Shatter is perfectly fine but pretending that it isn't a badly designed PvP mode is just silly.

Shatter is garbage. I've been on both ends of the barrel too. Have literally jumped up and down in front of a healer for 10 seconds while I die to dots on WAR. Said healer never targetted me.. or anyone lol. But I've also killed plenty of players who were attack ice right in front of their healers who never bothered to cast. It practically requires no skill at all and rewards the players who abuse a system of free rides: "gimme light, gimme mount, brb gotta watch dis YouTube video of somebody actually pvping!"

If they really wanted to spice things up they could keep an alliance, add mechanics and turn the crystal into a shape-shifting ball and have it do stuff too.. Take away "friendly fire" and call it a day. (Extreme sarcasm, WoD reference for those who would take this way to seriously)

Players not looking out for a teammate or tunneling on the objective doesn't make the mode itself terrible, just like trying to focus ONLY on the objective isn't a solid way to win. As I keep saying, there's a bit of a check and balance to all things there, which invalidates following only one strategy or trying to play it safe. The very idea of playing it safe in a PvP mode is a bit unrealistic. Someone has to attack, objectives or players. If no one does that in the name of playing it safe, that's when I say you're doing it wrong.

Baiting tactics while splitting up and going after objectives (bases, ices) can work against a super aggressive team that ONLY wants to focus on attacking players.
Attacking players that ONLY want to go after objectives and retreat otherwise works too
The third team letting the 2 others fight and capitalizing on objectives OR targeting either of the others in the skirmish can work too.
Playing it safe when you have a strong lead (assuming the other teams don't seem to notice this) works too.

I can't say it enough: if you stick to one strategy to win - and your opponent adapts and changes, then you risk losing. Most players fall into this trap, and it's honestly easy to do so. That's not Shatter's fault, it's yours for failing to adapt to the changing flow of battle.

[aeoncs]

Snip

You keep arguing like the individual player and what they think and/or want to do matters when they have 23 teammates. That's all nice and well on paper but it just doesn't work that way in a real game, at least not most of the time.
Shatter in and of itself allows PuGs to play it the way it's played more often than not, thus the mode definitely is at fault, or rather SE for designing it that way. How it can be played doesn't matter in the slightest.

[Enlial]

Shatter in and of itself allows PuGs to play it the way it's played more often than not, thus the mode definitely is at fault, or rather SE for designing it that way. How it can be played doesn't matter in the slightest.

That's only somewhat true. SE designed seal rock and shatter so that playing tactically matters alongside brute force. What ends up happening, though, is players new to pvp want to be able to do well right off the bat and convince themselves that winning/losing is 100% tactics and only focusing on the pve side of objectives is a good path to winning. Its not. Brute force matters. But they win sometimes, because of RNG and the other two teams being stupid, and when they lose just write it up to bad RNG or people not listening. Its not a good strategy and its almost certainly not what was intended, but you're right. It's ultimately the maps themselves at fault for being conductive to that sort of mindset. Borderlands did a good job of deterring that, with the LB bar diminishing out of combat, needed for the big node.

What we have now is a more subtle system where through battle highs/fevers the stronger team becomes stronger, if left unchecked, and able to steamroll during the late game. Ive given up arguing the point, though xD "yep you're rank 10 and you read the art of war in middle school. what do I know?" lol.

But yeah, its a new player thing. And its become much more prevalent since garo dropped.

[AdamZ]

You keep arguing like the individual player and what they think and/or want to do matters when they have 23 teammates. That's all nice and well on paper but it just doesn't work that way in a real game, at least not most of the time.
Shatter in and of itself allows PuGs to play it the way it's played more often than not, thus the mode definitely is at fault, or rather SE for designing it that way. How it can be played doesn't matter in the slightest.

So you want 1v1 PvP only? All the TEAM based PvP will relay on your teammates...

And truth, your random PuGs actually are more likely to chase kills then ice (and in the process kill themselves). There are titles tied to kills, there are no titles tied to ice damage.