Thread: *SPOILER* So I think the new primal in 3.5 part 2 is...

I know that it was a mythical animal to most but where did it state it had almost been forgotten. I thought the whole point of it taking the form of the Phoenix was because Phoenix's were identified with rebirth and renewal. I mean we literally have an item called Phoenix down in the game and pretty much a Phoenix mount.

While a Primal can be born from a single person's thought, they still need people to sustain that form. Its not just summoning them, its keeping them around.

Well, OK. Point conceded - Phoenix wasn't forgotten - I spoke (typed?) too quickly. The point is it wasn't an extant primal before the Calamity... and while Griever is more than a little far-fetched of an idea, given the circumstances and purpose of the new primal's summoning I'm of the mind that it's at least reasonably plausible?

I mean, we got the Knights of the Round, arguably the most over-the-top summon in franchise history... nothing is really gonna surprise me at this point.

Of course, simply being a bastardized Rhalgr or something completely original isn't off the table. I'm still of the mind that a corrupted Rhalgr, hijacked by Ilberd, is more likely than Griever, but I must admit the possibility intrigues me.

... but, to get into the pseudo-science of it, without active followers how was Phoenix still around? His is a unique case, but without that answered...

Originally Posted by Cilia

... but, to get into the pseudo-science of it, without active followers how was Phoenix still around? His is a unique case, but without that answered...

Well we know you only need atleast one follower for a Primal to come about. Odin and Enkidu prove this. To my understanding (I actually need to view the t12 cutscenes I keep forgetting to) Louisoix while tempered by Bahamut could also count as a believer in Phoenix which would be enough for him to transform into it.

No they don't (atleast to my understanding) but Phoenix still needed to be summoned thus still needing a follower. Louisoix being more of the Shiva type had already de-summoned it before Bahamut suddenly took him. If he had stuck around just a little longer things might have been much different.

Originally Posted by Cilia

I was of the mind that a primal simply needs a follower to summon it, after which it sustains itself by devouring aether in prodigious quantities. After the summoning it tempers followers to make sure it can be resummoned in case it's banished back to the aetherial plane.

Having more worshipers will increase a primal's power, but I don't think worshipers are strictly needed to keep it on the material plane?

The events in the Binding Coil and Azys Lla do not support this. In both cases the Allagans were forced to keep a large number of their followers in stasis in order to for their faith to sustain the physical form of the primal. Thus far, we have not had a single example of a Primal that doesn't have contemporary followers. With one exception...Odin.

Its worth remembering that Garuda's worshipper's faith regenerated her almost instantly after we beat her. She was clearly gaining something out of having worshipers while active. Also there would be little need to keep hundreds of Dragons in Stasis if Bahamut didn't need them to sustain him.

As for Phoenix, its worth noting that he dissipated almost instantly after beating Bahamut. Frankly the relationship between Bahamut, Pheonix and even Neal was one we haven't seen the like of. We literally had a tempered primal and I'm not sure what Neal truly was. Regardless Bahamut seem to sustain both of them. That isn't the case with whatever we have here if its not Rhalgr.