Thread: *SPOILER* So I think the new primal in 3.5 part 2 is...

Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

I really like to be corrected when it's justified

Ditto! Nothing worse than incomplete notes and fanon. (Aside from being told you're wrong based on another opinion, I guess...)

Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

But that makes me even more curious of who they were.

I just mind the [May Not Be Typical] sign and hope to stumble across the backstory one day.
Doesn't stop me from making up baseless headcanon in the meantime, though.

Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Did Phoenix exist as well?

No idea! They seem to be content to leave the explanation where it is for the time being. Perhaps they do so because it's such a wonky case, with Louisoix literally becoming (as far as we've been told: not summoning, not becoming host to, just becoming) a primal on the spot. With nothing better to go by, I like to think that people prayed for Louisoix to save them, and the Phoenix's physical form came from something on his mind at the exact moment all that free-floating aether resonated with the focused prayers and overtook him. In such a case, he would be the primal, but the shape came from him seeing a world in flames, desperately wishing for it to be reborn from the ashes, and thinking back on the legendary phoenix as any scholar might. Much like how Garuda is a woman who has been warped into a bird-woman, Louisoix would be a man warped into a bird-period, lol.

Another reason they might be leaving it mostly alone is because any specifics open a dangerous door. If Louisoix is the primal (and is not host to a third-party presence, which he did not seem to think was the case), and we never actually saw Louisoix die, then it's possible that he wasn't necessarily re-materialized ... he was metamorphosed directly from living person to aetherial deiform. How many people are now praying for the Warrior of Light to be their salvation? That could be a massive liability, and a hell of a way to die.

That said, yeah, I don't see it as impossible that something that would identify as Rhalgr could come from this.

Wouldn't it be the troll of the century, though, if the scheme was just to reconfigure Lahabrea from the Eyes?

(DISCLAIMER: Not claiming this has any probability. Please don't all dogpile me like when I said "Gaius might not be dead," lol.)

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I just mind the [May Not Be Typical] sign and hope to stumble across the backstory one day.
Doesn't stop me from making up baseless headcanon in the meantime, though.

I like you.

I'm not as sure as you, about the reasons why Phoenix is kept in the dark... I think you're right, but I also think you're missing something. The fact that Louisoix became a primal is, in my opinion, not as simple as that.

I think that, despite the massive amount of aether Louisoix had access to during the battle, he still wasn't able to gather enough energy to beat Bahamut. The twelves failed to deliver, they weren't powerful enough, so he had no other choice but to burn his own vital aether to give more power to the Primal. Basically, my guess is that Louisoix burned his own aether along with stagnant aether from the battlefield to give the "new" primal he was summoning more power. And that turned out great, because... Phoenix did his job.

So, your theory is completely relevant, but the fact that this primal was Phoenix is also a metaphor for Louisoix giving his life away, becoming Phoenix. And, basically, Phoenix could be summoned because he did get the "remnants of a being", in fact, he got so much of the remnants, because Louisoix's death and Phoenix's birth were nearly simultaneous, that Phoenix was probably the only primal with a soul of his own.

That's probably quite romanticized, but I think it has even more sense like that... If anyone has arguments to prove that I'm just b*llshiting here, please argue, but don't destroy my dream too hard =(

To get back to the main topic, which we're slowly but surely drifting away from, I think that if Louisoix was able to "create" a primal from mere aether and his "dreams" (let's put it that way, simpler...), I think, Ilberd, despite being much less of a scholar (not the job) than Louisoix was, had access to even more aether, and his fury could very well transform into faith in my opinion... and bring back someone that would become "Rhalgr".

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

and the fact that this is a fantasy setting makes it quite possible - even likely - that yes, there are actual, real gods out there

The only beings I believe exist as gods in the FFXIV universe are Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and maybe Midgardsormr and Oha-sok. I could explain in length how that pantheon works, in my opinion, but that's not the point, here, I just mean to say that... for me, the twelves are at best some ancient adventurers or beings that were revered, but never actually gods. But we'll see later on, I guess !

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

There very well might be "true" summonings, that aren't tainted by the Ascian's machinations - and Lousouix's ascendancy into Phoenix might have been one such true summoning.

Well, in fact, in the text I spoke about... some pages ago, Louisoix explained to Minfillia that summoning the twelves would have the same effect as summoning "a dozen primals". If anyones knows the text I mean, I'd be glad to have a link to it, as I don't remember how to access it, it was published for the first birthday of ARR, I think...

Anyway, I don't think the ascians are to blame for the hurt the summoning inflicts to Hydaelyn, they just teach how to summon to hurt her, but it would anyway.