People are already speedrunning Sohm Al (Hard)

[Deliciou5]

I still don't understand why the DutyFinder doesn't have a selection for what kind of run you're looking for:
- Speedrun
- Casual
- RP
- Don't care

If you want the fastest queues, you say Don't Care. Otherwise, you can trade queue times for the type of run you really want to do.

Que's would become ridiculous if we added all these sub-categories just to cater to a minority of people, if you are not speed running on EXPERT, then you are in the minority. Most people assume if your running one of the highest dungeons in the game you know how to play your class, almost every dungeon is the same when pulling large groups of mobs. There are very few exceptions, like bees in neverreap, where too many final stings can kill you.

My party always accommodates people who are new and speak up, but more often than not people pull multiple packs of monsters minimun.

[seekified]

It's not a speedrun anymore. It's just how you do things.

This. If you play an MMO for long enough, or do anything with repetitive tasks, really, eventually you'll end up wanting to do those things as efficiently as possible.

All jobs at 60 are capable of high AoE DPS. The tanks are capable of surviving 15 mobs hitting them, because the healers are capable of healing them through it while still finding time to DPS. Basically, dungeons are so easy that the only thing that limits how much we can pull are the gates imposed on us by the game's level designers. I'm not saying I don't enjoy dungeon runs (I do), but I don't want to spend longer than necessary in them because I could be doing other stuff that's actually challenging.

I don't think me pulling door-to-door is a speedrun, and I don't think it's a detriment to the experience of first-timers. They still get to see the dungeon and watch all the cutscenes, since SE realized they were being stupid with CM and Prae back in 2013.

[Vhailor]

This. If you play an MMO for long enough, or do anything with repetitive tasks, really, eventually you'll end up wanting to do those things as efficiently as possible.

All jobs at 60 are capable of high AoE DPS. The tanks are capable of surviving 15 mobs hitting them, because the healers are capable of healing them through it while still finding time to DPS. Basically, dungeons are so easy that the only thing that limits how much we can pull are the gates imposed on us by the game's level designers. I'm not saying I don't enjoy dungeon runs (I do), but I don't want to spend longer than necessary in them because I could be doing other stuff that's actually challenging.

I don't think me pulling door-to-door is a speedrun, and I don't think it's a detriment to the experience of first-timers. They still get to see the dungeon and watch all the cutscenes, since SE realized they were being stupid with CM and Prae back in 2013.

I agree with your point about people wanting to do things efficiently, but I couldn't disagree more with your last statement. Speed runs alter the dungeon experience, they don't provide as much of a learning experience, and they sort of suck the soul out of the dungeon, in my opinion at least.

There are two core design decisions here that have contributed to the rise of speed runs (and yes, those are a thing; saying it's just what you do is playing games with semantics).

1.) SE makes easy dungeons. If they don't start off that way, they eventually become that way as everyone becomes more powerful (i.e. the next version update). SE could easily change this if they wanted to; they could, for instance, make the iLevel cap stricter, so that over-gearing didn't break actual dungeon mechanics. They could also implement a tweak to specifically discourage the pulling of multiple groups; something like a 'damage multiplier' that triggers when multiple groups are pulled. Say, if two groups are engaged at once, they each do double damage; three groups engaged at once, everything does triple damage. Regardless, there are options, if SE ever wants to discourage speed-runs.

2.) SE designs dungeons with high levels of repetition in mind. Especially when dungeons are first released, people are running them several times a week. This results in boredom and a desire to finish the experience as quickly as possible. There are also plenty of alternatives here, if SE were ever inclined to revisit the issue.

So for anyone disliking speed-runs (and I count myself in that group), these are the two root causes to attack. It's pointless to ask for different DF options, or complain about speed-runners in general; speed-runs are a product of their environment.

[seekified]

It's pointless to ask for different DF options, or complain about speed-runners in general; speed-runs are a product of their environment.

On that, I completely agree. Essentially, people will find the optimal ways of doing everything in the game, to the extent that the game allows them to do so. It's why Diadem went to shit from optimal farming, it's why people farm A1S and finish their i270 relics in a couple of days, it's why everyone does the Wondrous Tails trials unsynced, and it's why we get door-to-door pulls in dungeons. The game allows them to do it, so they do it because they can.

I've been an advocate of harder dungeons for a long time, but it'd have to be an option, not something that is mandated for all new dungeons. If Hard Modes were actually hard and gave slightly better tome rewards but required higher iLvls, maybe that'd help. It's a tough problem to solve, and they'd have to be very careful with how they do it. To be fair, considering how limited their devtime already appears to be, I don't think much will change in the near term.

[kensatsu]

Faceroll content is faceroll content, players will speedruns them till the end.
Because there is not any special reason to not do it. Players is new to this dungeon ? Maybe you din't see how all dgn is the same ? pack of trash mobs/boss/pack of trash mobs/boss/ pack of trash mobs/boss and it's done. There is nothing special but linear and simple dungeon. at some point there is nothing to discovery exept background and background musics...

[Yonanja]

Speed runs alter the dungeon experience, they don't provide as much of a learning experience, and they sort of suck the soul out of the dungeon, in my opinion at least.

First, "learning experience" from normal trashmobs? In the latest lvl 60 dungeon? You've got to be joking, there's nothing new anyone could learn from fighting these mobs, be it 1 or 2 groups at a time.

Second, about that soul of the dungeon... these two dungeons are probably some of the worst designed dungeons I've seen in this game. One is a cave, with some waterpuddles and some lava, very original stuff... The other is a rampart with graphics and objects we've seen several times before.

Not even one of the bosses brought anything new to the table. So unless these are the among the first dungeons anyone does (which is impossible), there is really nothing that anyone could learn from these dungeons. They simply only exist for getting tomestones, and could just as well be replaced with an instanced room that you parked your char in for 15-20 minutes and got tomestones for doing so.

[Brinzy]

All this talk about people "speedrunning", and I still end up in dungeon runs where tanks pull one pack at a time with 40k+ HP, healers never enter cleric stance, and DPS do the damage I was doing in Neverreap. I'd love to always be in the groups that this thread brought up.

[Awful]

Usually for speed runs when I go on my drk I end up doing 50-60% of the dmg while my group does no dmg, healer is usually sitting there spamming heals while my bard is AFK feeding his cat and the drg is on the floor rolling around using Ring of Thorns.