Thread: Revelations from Patch 3.5

Originally Posted by CGMidlander

The 3.5 MSQ baffles me.

Why did Papalymo feel like he needed to do the Louisoix self-sacrifice thing? Why did they just simply assume that the WoL can't defeat whatever primal Ilberd tried to summon? I mean, you can defeat Bahamut, Alexander, Scathach & Super Saiyan Diabolos, Thordan (who had the power of the two eyes too), Nidhogg, The Warring Triad, and a whole host of other potential world-enders.

There are mitigating circumstances with many of those entities. Bahamut was literally still in the process of being re-constructed. Alexander WANTED to be defeated. Voidsents, even royalty, are generally considered lesser threats than top tier primals. Thordan only had one eye (Estinien still had the other) and had no element of living sacrifice in the summon, which is established to greatly expand the power of the summon. The Warring Triad were not at full strength (various pieces of dialog go out of their way to establish that). It's also been established as a viewpoint that just assuming the WoL will handle everything is irresponsible and selfish (see: Alphinaud). This was a perfect storm of summoning enhancements: Two aetherial batteries, a large number of human sacrifices including a self-sacrifice (which let's be honest sounds like a good plot excuse for increased power), and (assuming it's Rhalgr which is safe given that's who the dying people were crying out for) a god whose purpose is not protection, balance, growth, or victory, but destruction itself. Sounds like a bad deal.

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Main Story Quest

It's a nice touch that you can still see the seal Papalymo created outside the wall, and at night it really does look like a moon. Which leads me to wonder just who created this sealing method and *what* were they trying to seal in the 1st place?

It's already speculated that Zodiark might be on the moon due to the Zodiark statue.But I wonder if the "moon" is actually is actually a prison/seal? That perhaps Hydaelyn or her 1st champions used the same sealing ritual to seal Zodiark?

Originally Posted by Ibi

I'd argue that we have.

Wasn't Phoenix summoned under similarly extreme circumstances?

Come to think of it:

Yes, you're right. Whilst the original summoning of the Twelve to restore Dalamud was performed using the collective faith of the entirety of Eorzea, the creation of Phoenix was born of their desperation when the Twelve failed them. The situation at Baelsar's Wall is very similar.

Come to think of it, is it not then possible that Ilberd may actually have created a new primal as Louisoix did? In both cases the faith component of the summoning ritual was replaced with undirected desperation. The summoning was not focused on a specific deity. I wonder now if Ilberd is truly dead... He may have actually become a primal.

Originally Posted by Alberel

Come to think of it, is it not then possible that Ilberd may actually have created a new primal as Louisoix did? In both cases the faith component of the summoning ritual was replaced with undirected desperation. The summoning was not focused on a specific deity. I wonder now if Ilberd is truly dead... He may have actually become a primal.

The last part is possible, the first part is more up in the air.

The concept/mythology of Phoenix certainly wasn't new, based on Louisoix's comments post-T12: "This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below- and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved- by infusing me with the power of a primal. I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth." I don't think we have sufficient information to know if it was ever actively summoned as a primal before, but I suspect that if a line between primal and ancient symbol even exists, it's pretty blurred.

It's also unclear how exactly Phoenix was chosen as the entity that Louisoix became. Was it a convenient form for the situation or a conscious choice on the part of Louisoix?

Ilberd's comments suggest that the latter is certainly a possibility: "I will call upon a deity more terrible than the very black wyrm of the Calamity itself!" He certainly has a specific entity in mind, and seems to believe that he has control over the results of the summoning. Of course, it's also possible that he knows that Ala Mihgans, in their time of need, would universally call upon Rhalgr to protect them, as the dying resistance soldier whose last wishes we hear does: "Mighty Rhalgr... Grant us... the strength... to c-crush... our..." As an Ala Mighan, it's also not unreasonable to presume that that's who Ilberd himself would call upon.

As far as the last sentence goes, I'd say not just "may have", he probably intended to: "You say no mortal should wield these eyes? Then I shall gladly become a demon."

On the mystery primal:

Current evidence seems to point to either Rhalgr, Shinryu, or Griever. Note that even if it isn't called Rhalgr, the primal could still be an avatar of the Destroyer (in Ilberd's mind), if you consider Ramuh to be the Sylph's interpretation of Rhalgr.

Shinryu seems possible because of Omega's connections to it in prior games. Ilberd also said he wanted to summon something greater than Bahamut, and was holding Nidhogg's eyes. Midgardsormr, the father of the two aforementioned great wyrms, looked a lot like Shinryu. Not only that, but he also led the first victory against the Garlean invasion at the cost of his "life."

As for Griever, it kinda looks like demonic griffin (or at least lion/demon hybrid). The Griffin did say he shall be a demon instead. Plus during the fight his big attack was called "Lionhead/Lionheart". And with all the Hindu themes associated with Stormblood, Griever would correspond well with Narasimha, whose "divine anger" probably resonates with Ilberd's attitude.

Originally Posted by Cilia

Plot Details, yo!

It was mentioned by the Word of the Mother (I refuse to call that thing Minfilia) when the schism between Light and Dark happened aeons ago, Zodiark was banished to the heavens to forever remain a "moon bound."

This, combined with the Zodiark statue up there, how it seems to be Elidibus' favorite haunt, and how Hydaelyn is the name of both our planet and Goddess, almost certainly means that the moon is Zodiark - or what's left of him, at any rate. It's not Menphina.

Who exactly created that sealing spell? Why does it so closely resemble Dalamud? Who knows. I was of the mind that the original spell used by Louisoix was also a time spell - rewinding time so that Bahamut was still imprisoned in Dalamud, but apparently that's not the case.

Main Scenario

I wonder if the sealing spell came first, and the Allagans made Dalamud in it's image?

MSQ

What I'm wondering is if Papalymo's spell would alter the primal being formed... possibly taking over the aether and forming a different primal?

The other thing that comes into mind is that the barrier will diffuses the aether gathered, essentially aborting the primal before it can form

And somehow, all this happened before, and it will all happen again...

I just have one question : what happened with the second Griffin seen in 3.4?

Originally Posted by Garnix

I just have one question : what happened with the second Griffin seen in 3.4?

Who knows? Maybe as the actual Griffon stepped into the forefront to enact his plan, he stepped back into being another average member of the resistance? Maybe he'll keep up the charade and become a leader in his own right? Or do so on his own without the Griffon's imagery? Or maybe he'll never be addressed ever again.