Thread: Revelations from Patch 3.5

Surprised this thread isn't up yet! Opinion dumps and debate ahoy!

Remember to mark spoilers by section.

Example Scenario

Now you've spoiled the example scenario.

I'll be late... I... uh... "slept in". But as I post reactions, I'll just dump mine in the OP, as well, I guess.

Main Scenario

First impressions before I get to the real digging later. No surprise, the trailer was edited to misdirect so we didn't predict too much correctly, throwing a lot of our houses of cards about the progression of events directly into the dirt. I think most of us were ready for that, lol. But we got a lot of the context right! That said, I feel like we we've only experienced a fraction of the trailer's hype, and we've two months to wait now. The wistful frustration outweighs the excitement for today at least. ANYROAD.

SCHEMES: I liked the Griffin's false flag operation. A good execution of a tried and true trope.

GRIFFIN: I'm sure we were all shocked to see that the Griffin was somehow Ilberd all along (/s), which makes me more suspicious that something else is above him in this plot. Plus he's dead, that helps the assumption.

SACRIFICE: I always figured the city-state envoys had pretty thick plot armor to keep the plot balanced, but as was the case with Dalamud, Gridania does have one to spare in a sense. Perhaps all our crying foul over Nanamo encouraged them to commit to a bigger leap... but we'll see. Our old friend has a knack for survival.

THE SPELL: The sealing spell might require a bit of lampshading in the future (kudos to the team for the subtle lampshade of the eyes-over-the-bridge thing. "EVERYONE knows NO ONE has EVER survived a trip to the abyss! Damn the already-dead and their loopholes!"). I assume it looked like the Twelve-sealing of Dalamud because spells have intentions and will in mind. You can't call an egi unless you've seen the primal, perhaps what you've seen affects the spell.

Warring Triad

Some pleasant surprises here! They reined in the heavy-handedness of the "repeating Allag's mistakes" and sowed a few more seeds for it being conceivable that cooperation with the Empire, barring certain spheres of influence, isn't forever off the table. Still, that was not the end I expected for Regula, not that I'm disappointed in the least. The traces of Kefka-ness were light indeed! But sacrificing himself to save an Ascian-tained boy that only wanted camaraderie. Not bad. /golfclap

We'll have to see if Varis is as willing to denounce primal capture as Regula was. Unexpected, and satisfying.

Still, I can't help but fear this isn't going to bring the debates to a balance. Garlemald is millions of people, two continents, dozens of cities, fourteen armies. Imho, it's statistically impossible that we would be wholly incompatible. However, the path set by their leadership is lousy with false premises and conclusions that are then used as justification for atrocities with decades of impact. Ideals or entire factions must be purged for that cooperation to come. I'm hoping we don't just see a resurgence of "See? Garlemald is friendship!" vs. "They are evil incarnate!" The fall of the empire entirely will make things worse before better.

Unukalhai played out much as expected; we'd worked a lot out previously - Elidibus, the other world, etc. It's nice to have it conclusively be The Thirteenth, however. Evidence was solid, but we needed that last bit to close the book. Whether or not he has denounced Elidibus and his works, however, isn't so clear. The premises Elidibus presents are tried and true - without balance, a world falls to void. Yet I must assume that his conclusion is wildly different from our own while he wipes entire dimensions that might stably co-exist simply because they are an aberration of nature - while he labors for the will of the Dark in service to this "balance" so that Zodiark might rise rather than fall to void himself. I still can't bring myself to trust the dude, but I've been wrong before.

Originally Posted by dalta

lol it the story just ends right there like wtf. no to be continued or anything

Agreed. Finished the MSQ, but there was no 'end of the MSQ for this patch' ending like most have, likely because there is more to this patch's story in 3.55 and 3.5 part 2. Still seemed like a sudden ending, leaving bits hanging. When it was over, I was looking for the next MSQ icon on the map and when I couldn't find it, I went straight online to see if that was really the end of the story for now.

Also...

Freaking Lalafells. The grin on the one before they summoned the mechacrabs...I wanted to punch him right in the face, and even more than I usually want to punch a Lalafell in the face. I swear, if something bad happens in Eorzea, there's a Lalafell somewhere who is just delighted about it. Jerks.

And I guess this is a chance for people who missed out on 1.x to have a small taste of what it's like to have a ball of stuff with giant spikes sticking out of it hanging in the sky indefinitely. Are we taking wagers on what is trapped inside mini-Dalamud (Dalamini?)? Story, including the stuff from the Little Ala Mhigo quests in 2.0 seems to point to an incarnation of Rhalgar, but it can't be that simple, can it? And can we just go get Omega now to squish it while it is still trapped?

Main Scenario

First impressions before I get to the real digging later. No surprise, the trailer was edited to misdirect so we didn't predict too much correctly, throwing a lot of our houses of cards about the progression of events directly into the dirt. I think most of us were ready for that, lol. But we got a lot of the context right! That said, I feel like we we've only experienced a fraction of the trailer's hype, and we've two months to wait now. The wistful frustration outweighs the excitement for today at least. ANYROAD.

SCHEMES: I liked the Griffin's false flag operation. A good execution of a tried and true trope.

GRIFFIN: I'm sure we were all shocked to see that the Griffin was somehow Ilberd all along (/s), which makes me more suspicious that something else is above him in this plot. Plus he's dead, that helps the assumption.

SACRIFICE: I always figured the city-state envoys had pretty thick plot armor to keep the plot balanced, but as was the case with Dalamud, Gridania does have one to spare in a sense. Perhaps all our crying foul over Nanamo encouraged them to commit to a bigger leap... but we'll see. Our old friend has a knack for survival.

THE SPELL: The sealing spell might require a bit of lampshading in the future (kudos to the team for the subtle lampshade of the eyes-over-the-bridge thing. "EVERYONE knows NO ONE has EVER survived a trip to the abyss! Damn the already-dead and their loopholes!"). I assume it looked like the Twelve-sealing of Dalamud because spells have intentions and will in mind. You can't call an egi unless you've seen the primal, perhaps what you've seen affects the spell.

Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

You hide the spoiler discussion on a spoiler thread?

Usually. It's so someone isn't dissuaded from joining the thread until they've done every single piece of content. In the past, people have popped in and out discussing the parts they've done while they do the others, and the practice grew organically from there. They can open one box without being spoiled by the other (assuming they're labeled).

Things often fall into such Nash equilibria over time, lol.

Right, like when I logged in I did Warring Triad first, there was a lot of stuff I'd love to discuss but I wouldn't want to open the 3.5 thread and have MSQ spoilers right there! Some people might've only had the chance to do one leg of content before shuffling off to work, school, etc. but also somehow find the time to post on internet forums *cough*

MSQ

The "false flag" operation was surprising. The little nods about "wtf the Eyes!?" were cute. Guess that was the only real thing the Warriors of Darkness managed to do right. Oh man Ilberd and not Gaius nor Warburton color me surprised! His death, however, did surprise me. Never did I think the Griffin/Ilberd wouldn't carry us into 4.X--I expected us to have to deal with the Empire immediately in 4.0 and then tie up the Ilberd end during 4.X a la Nidhogg in 3.X, but kudos for tricking me again. Papalymo's sacrifice was yech. If it's not permanent it might even be MORE yech. Forgive me for not believing you actually felt bad about killing those Resistance soldiers, Laurentius. Yuyuhase being a smug shite as always. Disappointing the Dalamud 2.0 isn't visible from other Shroud zones (I think?). I'm curious if you can rewatch the Papalymo CS and choose the other option. I tried to stay with him and he just knocked me into the airship with a spell. Yda's bloodthirstiness and zeal for Ala Mhigan liberation was... annoying. I hadn't anticipated it and it really bummed me out. Also majorly disappointed in how much of the trailer was in 3.5 Part II and how the most interesting bits might've been there!

I also agree with the sudden ending feeling.. out of place. I don't remember how 2.5 handled it, but man this was abrupt. Interestingly, Arenvald, the half-breed Garlean in the Waking Sands has a dialogue update after Papalymo's passing. Urianger, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have been updated any. Even regarding the Warring Triad he spouts the same lines despite the arc being over. Radolf mentions Papalymo's death too.

Warring Triad

I'll be damned. Regula's actions surprisde me, honestly--I was never one to completely consign the role of absolute villain to the Garleans, but I was unprepared for his brief, fleeting alliance and his disdain for Allag technology. It.. made sense..? Which surprised me for some reason, I don't know. For all their glorious achievements if there's one thing the Allag have proved is that their inventions and machinations eventually fail. Certainly not out of planned obsolescence, but nonetheless imperfect. It may last five thousand years, but what good is it if it isn't permanent? Then came Regula's sacrifice! Oi! At the very least it didn't strike me as the same self-sacrifice we're used to seeing. I don't think he planned to die for the greater good and man if his parry wasn't particularly awe-inspiring. Such a shame, I hope there's some flag for Varis' dialogue about his passing later on. Also, glad to have it spelled out that the forces on Azys Lla aren't abandoned. Not that I had ever thought they were given things like Scared Sylla, but people are stubborn. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unukalhai actually joining the Scions? I wonder. I had hoped for this in truth, but never expected it. Will he hang out in the Solar permanently--will he feature in 3.5 Part II MSQ? Will he feature in Stormblood? It'd be so nice, no? Perhaps we'll see a precedent set with another character "returning" from a side scenario. Then again, Cid never seems to mention Alexander or the Crystal Tower. We're down 3 legatii now.

Dun Scaith

Heh, the "surprise" ending boss was neat. Barely managing to scrape through a win against Diabolos Hollow made it feel that much more dangerous. I'm curious what all the "Hollow" bit was about though? So many of them had that suffix. Would that Leofard and Cait Sith returned for some other story but I'm not expecting it. I really wanted Cait Sith to be our go-to void scholar too. I was terribly afraid he'd lose sentience after completing his master's wish or some malarkey so I'm glad that didn't happen. Still confused by Radlia. Diabolos' scheming for over a thousand years to get Mhach to summon Schathach as well to absorb her essence really sells home the point that those of the Thirteenth only cared about furthering their own power in the end of days, so that was nice.

These are just initial thoughts, I'm sure in the coming weeks/months I'll refine and be madder/less impressed/etc.

MSQ thoughts

I did call it in the other thread. Papalymo's pondering on life and death, coupled with taking Tupsimati was going to lead to this. Also, it drives a wedge between Yda and Thancred, which would potentially lead to a greater fragmentation of the Scions. Ironic and (I would have thought) highly likely off the back of Alphinaud's little speech about leadership.

Waring Triad

I didn't have the time to actually do the battle last night, but it was unsurprising to see Regula written out, but maybe he was the start of opening up the empire to more shades of grey. He could bend or suspend the principles of opposition to the Eorzeans if it meant a chance to get at a larger, more serious threat.

I'll edit in other thoughts when I've done the rest.