If parsing is needed to clear challenging content then why is it not in the game?

[SenorPatty]

Anti-parsers dont have a reason for not wanting a parser because they're human. Humans make mistakes. Sometimes, we'll want to fix our mistakes. Sometimes we'll not. But we want it to be our choice. Being outed, constructively or not, positively or not doesn't make humans feel good. At first. Or later. Either way, when playing a game, especially a game of all things and then being told by a program that your numbers aren't up to snuff, it just doesn't feel good.

Numbers are cold. The first impression a parser gives to someone who's not used to it is "your humanely possible efforts suck" or "Conform to a way it should be played". Again, all this over a game. The other side of this spectrum is something like "thought you could sneak in a get carried? Pls". Either way, its still being outed. And when you're outed by a parser, your immediate control over the game is turned over...to other players.

That's my thought on anti-parsers

[Dement]

snip

I can certainly understand these concerns and they absolutely are valid. At such an impasse, I believe there to be a compromise which already has all the systems in place (save for the parser itself). I would like them to implement a parser first and foremost in SSS and training dummies and also for content accessed through the Raid Finder only. Additionally, the leader should have options for a group parser, individual parsers, or completely disabled. Queuing without a full group will automatically implement individual parsers. Additionally, the most recent 2 primal extremes will be accessed through the Raid Finder.

This satisfies the valid concerns of the pro-parser crowd by allowing people to receive feedback while practicing their rotations at a dummy as well as the option to see their contribution to content where a parser is actually beneficial be it through a static, a PF group, or a Raid Finder random group. However, it addresses the concerns for jackassery from the anti-parser crowd by keeping the parser out of content that really does not need a parser.

[Fluffernuff]

However, it addresses the concerns for jackassery from the anti-parser crowd by keeping the parser out of content that really does not need a parser.

I feel maybe I went off on a bit of a rant and I lost track of my original intent. and that pretty much sums it up.

I'm fully on board with implemented parsers.... for the content that really benefits from it. Random Duty Finders or even 24 mans or 8-man normals really don't require that sort of investment, and even having it brings very little gain anyway. knowing Random Joe #8345 you'll likely never see again is doing only 4% of the group's damage isn't going to help get the clear.
In such content, pure numbers only highlight who is underperforming, not why. yes, standing in bad is obvious and such, but this is PUG we're talking about, too.

for personal use, this information is utterly pointless. as a solo in a pug setting, the only numbers that matters are your own, and these can also be found elsewhere, like a striking dummy. there is no reason why you needed to see everyone else's numbers here. meaning a huge benefit is completely removed.

For raids, those numbers are much more important, because then you have a source. therefore, you have a means of correction. randoms do not have these benefits, as a core function- quick, concise communication- is removed in those settings.


Which puts a weird sort of focus on things, since the game in general doesnt really revolve around that content. yes, alot of the forum regulars tend to be in that percentage, but most players i bump into don't really hardcore savage raid... alot merely stop at savage primals, if that... and thats only if their weapon either looks nice or has desired stats.

I feel the reason "harrassment" is such a buzzword for parsers is because of this... it IS very much an enabler for such behavior, yet the benefit touted by the pro-side is very handicapped for personal use in random groups. it's a very lopsided topic. I feel both sides are right in different regards, but both are wrong by being dismissive.

[Ghishlain]

Kinda weird that everyone goes on about how great this community is on places like Gamefaqs and Reddit, yet we're not allowed to have functional tools for data measurement because of harassment fear-mongering.

So which is it? Are we actually a stellar super-nice community that can be trusted with information like this, or do we only appear nice because of strict behavioral censoring and anti-criticism policies?

It's both, to be honest. There are two sides of the spectrum and funny enough FFXIV excels at both sides of that very spectrum.

Some of the genuinely nicest random people I've ever met have come from this game. There have been joyous memories created of people I've only partied with once.

And I've also met some of the ignorant, toxic, asses possible in this very same game, in a completely different and unrelated instance. Some that makes me seethe and need to step away from the game to calm my nerves.

The community is great and also have the largest thorns on the rose bud that I've ever seen. Quite the interesting juxtaposition.

[SargentToughie]

Snip.

The fact that you talk about parsers not being a measurement of how people do their jobs proves to me that you know nothing about what it means to raid in this game, or partake in fights that actually have challenge to them. If you fail a mechanic in a fight even in Alex Normal, fights where where parsers actually matter, you die or your team wipes, full stop. There is no other measurement for that. Avoidable damage becomes 1-shots, failed mechanics become raid wipes. Those are easily measured, those can easily be identified, you can see those. The challenge of savage isn't how many mechanics you can ignore or how much damage you do, but how many 1-shots you can avoid in a given timeframe in order to clear the battle, while outputting maximum damage.

The measurement which we do not have readily available is how much damage you're doing, while also performing your other roles and mechanics. These aren't something you can just ignore or slip beyond, even in EX primals which are pretty trivial as far as high end battles go. You'll understand if you ever actually get to any of those encounters, it's not something that can be readily understood until you've sen it with your own two eyes. Even in The Vault, whenever you run it, it becomes pretty obvious when people are messing up mechanics. This isn't a matter of putting DPS above all, this is a matter of reading out how well you're performing at a given role, while taking all other things into consideration.

Simply put, in most 8 man level 60 content, the only content in the game in which parsers actually do anything that matters, there is no way to 'inflate' your parse by ignoring mechanics, because ignoring mechanics kills you. Again, it's really hard to understand until you've reached max level, or partaken in those battles yourself. I'd ask that you please abstain from arguing on behalf of content that you do not understand, and have not seen for yourself.

[Jirah]

when i tried to do Seat of sacrifice EX the Tank parsed so he could judge the F out of the Dps....

unaware that we werent anywhere near it so it was pointless

[ICountFrom0]

If the game included a parser, I know exactly where it would go.
Not in the run as you play it.
Never then.

You'd record the run.

Then the playback would include parse.