If parsing is needed to clear challenging content then why is it not in the game?

[dragonseth07]

I always report people using parser.

Do the same.

"Hey, your numbers are really low on this fight."
"LET GO OF MY PURSE! I DON'T KNOW YOU!" *NUTKICK*

Seriously, what do you care if other people can see how well/poorly you're doing?

[Kosmos992k]

I report poor DPS.

Sooner or later someone on the GM team will wonder why you keep reporting players for playing the game, but not to *your* expectation, and realize all you are doing is trying to harass said players using the GMs as a proxy. So, njoy your ban when it comes then. Reporting someone for something like that is pure harassment.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

Raid leaders, their job is to get a group of people through content. If someone isn't pulling high enough DPS, I can speak to them privately after practice and help guide them get their numbers up so they can also be part of a successful team. No, I don't use a parser but I see the benefits if them and I'd say the benefits outweigh the pitfalls.

[Greedalox]

Eh, this dichotomy of the playerbase of views on parsing will never end. There are those who enjoy seeing where they need to improve if at all, and then there are those who don't like to be judged for short comings. Both sides are understandable, but what I don't understand is stuff like -

I always report people using parser.

Do the same.

-which is quite gross. Policing issues that even SE is lax about to get your high rise isn't cute. Yeah if you're genuinely being harassed for putting out low numbers then go for it. But don't go on a highhorse tantrum for people who genuinely use it to improve themselves and even their PS4 friends. Reminds me of those little old ladies who buy their own Radar Gun and sit on the sidewalk for 8 hours a day marking down people who were doing something they don't like.

[Fluffernuff]

Parsers are indeed a useful tool to be used for either yourself or a group doing the same.


Parsers fail in their use if used to determine how you treat others, especially in a PUG environment.

In fact, I would say in a PUG environment, parsers have very little benefit at all to the individual using them. beyond possibly applying tested abilities to practical application. or in other words, seeing how well you can do that dummy rotation between trash pulls. Beyond, that, I cannot see how a parser will -actually- help in PUG content in the moment.

Yes, it is a valuable tool in your raid belt, but the mentality of most people (especially in mmos as a whole) tend to deteriorate when it comes to 3, 7, or 23 other random people. Superiority is one helluva drug that we know all to many "DF" players overdose on... the only thing keeping most of them quiet is ever present threat of a ban over their head...

[Dement]

Parsers are indeed a useful tool to be used for either yourself or a group doing the same.


Parsers fail in their use if used to determine how you treat others, especially in a PUG environment.

In fact, I would say in a PUG environment, parsers have very little benefit at all to the individual using them. beyond possibly applying tested abilities to practical application. or in other words, seeing how well you can do that dummy rotation between trash pulls. Beyond, that, I cannot see how a parser will -actually- help in PUG content in the moment.

Yes, it is a valuable tool in your raid belt, but the mentality of most people (especially in mmos as a whole) tend to deteriorate when it comes to 3, 7, or 23 other random people. Superiority is one helluva drug that we know all to many "DF" players overdose on... the only thing keeping most of them quiet is ever present threat of a ban over their head...

I completely agree that parsers should not dictate behavior.

However, as to your second point for individual benefit, it depends on what you mean by PUG environment. If you mean any and all PUG environments then I completely disagree. If you mean dungeons and 24 mans then I absolutely agree that they have no benefit. However, joining a PF group for Zurvan EX today would be considered a PUG environment and if DPS checks aren't being met, the individual using a parser can determine if they are the ones not completing the mechanics. At no point do I advocate as using it to demoralize others; however, it could be utilized to identify weak links and clue them in that they may be the reason checks aren't met. This, of course, would imply proper knowledge of classes and their capabilities or if even a personal parser were implemented in game, each person would be responsible for their own checks and balances to determine how to progress forward.

Unfortunately you're absolutely right that people enjoy the feeling of superiority; however, I would argue a jackass doesn't need a parser to be an jackass and inclusion of an in-game parser would not necessitate changing the ToS in regards to harassment.

[Fluffernuff]

However, as to your second point for individual benefit, it depends on what you mean by PUG environment. If you mean any and all PUG environments then I completely disagree. If you mean dungeons and 24 mans then I absolutely agree that they have no benefit. However, joining a PF group for Zurvan EX today would be considered a PUG environment and if DPS checks aren't being met, the individual using a parser can determine if they are the ones not completing the mechanics...

Yeah, hence my first sentence-

Parsers are indeed a useful tool to be used for either yourself or a group doing the same.

While, yeah, party finder falls under "Pick Up Group", there's also a separate mentality, and usually far more prep that goes into those... so I wouldn't class party finder under QUITE the same lens... it's more kinda in-between full on randos and a static. I still do prefer the idea of a personal only parser being implemented, at least for the ps4 users at the very least, though. Not having information is more harmful than not.

Unfortunately you're absolutely right that people enjoy the feeling of superiority; however, I would argue a jackass doesn't need a parser to be an jackass and inclusion of an in-game parser would not necessitate changing the ToS in regards to harassment.

Indeed, but there's just that threat of it spreading once that behavior is either
A) "Encouraged" by SE with "official" implementation
B) "Supported" by "facts"
C) Readily available

people are people and people suck, after all. if not a parser, they'll find something else to attack people for, it's just something that should at least be considered. too many people here laugh it off as nonsense. yet as someone stated before, even if sarcastic...

I report poor DPS.

Only become easier to do, and more prevalent

[Dement]

snip

I can certainly understand these concerns and they absolutely are valid. At such an impasse, I believe there to be a compromise which already has all the systems in place (save for the parser itself). I would like them to implement a parser first and foremost in SSS and training dummies and also for content accessed through the Raid Finder only. Additionally, the leader should have options for a group parser, individual parsers, or completely disabled. Queuing without a full group will automatically implement individual parsers. Additionally, the most recent 2 primal extremes will be accessed through the Raid Finder.

This satisfies the valid concerns of the pro-parser crowd by allowing people to receive feedback while practicing their rotations at a dummy as well as the option to see their contribution to content where a parser is actually beneficial be it through a static, a PF group, or a Raid Finder random group. However, it addresses the concerns for jackassery from the anti-parser crowd by keeping the parser out of content that really does not need a parser.

[Fluffernuff]

However, it addresses the concerns for jackassery from the anti-parser crowd by keeping the parser out of content that really does not need a parser.

I feel maybe I went off on a bit of a rant and I lost track of my original intent. and that pretty much sums it up.

I'm fully on board with implemented parsers.... for the content that really benefits from it. Random Duty Finders or even 24 mans or 8-man normals really don't require that sort of investment, and even having it brings very little gain anyway. knowing Random Joe #8345 you'll likely never see again is doing only 4% of the group's damage isn't going to help get the clear.
In such content, pure numbers only highlight who is underperforming, not why. yes, standing in bad is obvious and such, but this is PUG we're talking about, too.

for personal use, this information is utterly pointless. as a solo in a pug setting, the only numbers that matters are your own, and these can also be found elsewhere, like a striking dummy. there is no reason why you needed to see everyone else's numbers here. meaning a huge benefit is completely removed.

For raids, those numbers are much more important, because then you have a source. therefore, you have a means of correction. randoms do not have these benefits, as a core function- quick, concise communication- is removed in those settings.


Which puts a weird sort of focus on things, since the game in general doesnt really revolve around that content. yes, alot of the forum regulars tend to be in that percentage, but most players i bump into don't really hardcore savage raid... alot merely stop at savage primals, if that... and thats only if their weapon either looks nice or has desired stats.

I feel the reason "harrassment" is such a buzzword for parsers is because of this... it IS very much an enabler for such behavior, yet the benefit touted by the pro-side is very handicapped for personal use in random groups. it's a very lopsided topic. I feel both sides are right in different regards, but both are wrong by being dismissive.

[loreleidiangelo]

Kinda weird that everyone goes on about how great this community is on places like Gamefaqs and Reddit, yet we're not allowed to have functional tools for data measurement because of harassment fear-mongering.

So which is it? Are we actually a stellar super-nice community that can be trusted with information like this, or do we only appear nice because of strict behavioral censoring and anti-criticism policies?