Is progressive content or the community to blame for player skill gap?

[DarkB]

So I ask this question, because for instance lets say your playing an rpg well in that rpg pretty much to get to that journey everyone has to take the same path to get to said destination. And I believe this gives you time to go at your own pace learn and develop at your own skill level.

In a game such as this you are expected to at least according to the forums to be on a skill level of people that who have been playing far longer than yourself. That being said while skipping many of the challenging themes along the path to get to the most current challenging content. For instance how this game is set up you have these options for everything pre hw, put up a party in pf, run unsync , or competently skip any of the old challenging content. Which means no raids before Alexander realistically nobody does binding coils if they do ,its unsync, or said player would have to have patience to wait hours to get it in a duty finder. No prior experience with 24 main raids, unless you que up on a Sunday and get lucky. And no real legitimate experience with any type of primals in the Arr series if all ran unsync unless you include hard moods which is a far cry from extremes. The only real challenge before hw for someone that doesnt go out of their way to do these alternative content options would be aurum vale and then that isnt even required either. So that being said I just wonder how the community expects someone who skipped all this content , to be good when they get to ravana, or they get to any of the other primals. You are essentially going from cake walk content into something that's suppose to be challenging although according to the forums everything in the game is easy.

I mention the rpg because for instance ff 15 I havent finished it yet but essentially everyone has the same path there with no skip routes there are no other routes, you have to progress from boss to boss learning from each. I just wanted to somewhat defend players that haven't been around that long and just how they get constantly ragged on. Yea its players that never use fire 3, or tanks that don't hold arggo, but I think this is more rare than the ones who actually want to learn how to play the game. And if I read these forums before I started I prob wouldn't have joined the game because it seems as tho people don't really care about new players are if they want to play this game step by step. If you want people to get on your level then remember how long it took you to get to said level, or that maybe you didnt come to the game when their was content that was considered irrelevant and you had time to do and practice all of it to the point you are at in the game now. Ive played my part to running people through unsync stuff but its literally the only way for trials, rushing dungeons for new players, I actually feel bad about this sometimes. Not speaking up when I could asking why a player isnt using their aoes, and things of that nature. But I dont leave duties I've never cussed anyone out, I have always given people a chance and Id like to think that makes better players. Instead of telling people how they suck and that every piece of content in the game your playing is easy and if they dont catch on then they are just horrible.

To be a good sports player you practice, to make good grades in college you study, to be a good parent you work on it, so the same goes here you cant expect people to skip so much content and then be a good player and this isnt a jump potion thread. I'm actually for jump potions because I know whats gona happen to hw when new stuff comes out anyone who wants to go through that content will be left in the dust because its not the current thing to do. Sorry for the long rant people prob want even read all of this but its just simply a call to not be so quick to judge, and not always look through content from your own eyes alone.

Alright, i know where you coming from, you have a good amount of valid points if not all, but let me tell you something.
This game is divided into two, the skill you need to perform well on your class | the skill you need to perform to go against content (boss|raids|dungeons).

- Now lets talk about the first one, skill you need on your class.
First thing first you need to want to put effort into learning your class, just queueing up into some dungeon and try mashin button is not going to get you anywhere.
Now if your intent is to get better into the game, then keep reading, if you dont care and you just want to be carried you can already stop reading here.

If you wanna become at the same level as other players that play since years, you dont have to do anything much, just practice for at best 2 days? there are guides online that talks about every possible rotation on each dps class, how to heal, how to tank, enmity priorty skills, how to pull. everything. It takes litterally 2 days to watch some videos and practice on dummies. Get a parser, and ask around or check around the usual dps damage numbers, and try to get as close as you can on that (of course it depends on your iLvL, but if you still can perform the rotations well, you are fine).

In my opinion this is the most important thing about this game, so many people just dont care to learn their classes and perform well. The mechanics are easy to learn, this game doesnt have hard mechanics, on any content you can pick, if someone on voice tells you how to avoid stuff and when to move, after 10 tries you can do that content without a single mistake. So the "hard" part is combining your performance on your job with learning the mechanic.

But again i cant stress enough on the first point, you need to learn your class first, how to be proficent and good, how to not have other people carry you. and this is EXTREMELY easy, which is why it annoys me when i see people going around with full i260 not knowing rotation and pulling out 700 dps. It just means that they didnt care to spend at least 1 day to check their rotation, setup their toolbar with the skills and practice for some hours on a dummy. If you dont want to do this, well then you cant really blame anyone else. There is so much content out there to put you in condition to learn your class, that is simply ridicolous that there are still people that are so bad, its just unacceptable.

- Now lets talk Mechanics.

Mechanics in this game are not that hard, some of them are harder because of latency, your ping and what you see on screen sometimes is not what SE server see. But other than that, lets take your Ravana example, each battle is different and has its own mechanic, some are the same and they follow a pattern over the years, they have the same visual feedback to help you understand when to move out of an AOE damage spell, or when to stack with the group, these are quite easy to grasp, but in general the best way to learn mechanics is again to watch videos and guides, xiv wiki has a video for every single battle in game, well explained, you can also ask someone to help you, or even open here in the forum a thread askin info about a specific fight and mechanic.

While as i said i agree on mostly what you said, i dont really think that "skipping" old content makes you a worse player. To be a good player you just need to apply and do what i told you, havin beaten ravana or bismarck extreme doesnt really count into your success towards clearing a10s for example.

Every fight is a new learning path, so take these as that. But remember, learn your class first. A very good training ground where people dont stress a lot are dungeons, learn to perform there, reaction time on healing, not losing hate on mobs as tank, good dps on single target boss, good dps on multi pulls.

If you think about it, its all there, the game is very very straightforward and easy, and in the end if you need help, just ask for it, nobody will deny you that.

Being able to have your class under controll is the #1 priority. Mechanics are easy to learn.

Most of the people are LAZY to an embarassing level. to learn your class it will take not more than 3 days, thats how easy it is. but you need to want it, you need to not wait for someone to help you, go out and find guides, use google, type whatever job you wanna learn "drg xiv rotation" for example.

goodluck

[bswpayton]

Alright, i know where you coming from, you have a good amount of valid points if not all, but let me tell you something.
This game is divided into two, the skill you need to perform well on your class | the skill you need to perform to go against content (boss|raids|dungeons).
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I agree with you on the know your class and watch videos , but what I don't do is call content easy unless it actually is, because to be easy it would actually need to be easy to most people and I just dont feel as tho thats the case.

Otherwise why do so many people stop at the hard mood versions why is it so hard to get fc members to do a sync run with me but if I ask to do a pony farm then they are all for it. I do not see these mechanics as easy I find them as doable and possible but easy is sathasha , or all of the lowbie dungeons. There are hurdles thrown out there for different players just based on experience or what they are use to from other games. Thats the issue I see so much the word easy just being thrown out there so much thats why I said lets not look at things through our on lens, now are dungeons easier than extreme primals of course they are, but for some even dungeons can be challenging. When I think of easy , I think if I que up for this in duty finder then its no pressure Im going to be able to do this with ease get in and get out, I dont go into any primal thinking this because the content was not meant to be easy. Before I cleared even shiva ex, she is easier than some of the other primals but she isnt easy she isnt sathisa and several parties abandoned and left , people still whip on gaurda is it easier than other extreme primals yes but again it is no guildhiest level 10 and some people will find it pretty difficult.

I did ifrit hard mood the other day and like three people died , but maybe that was a degree of difficulty for them who am I to judge what that bar is. So yes knowing your class reading tool tips I personally I agree with and will always try to , do and like someone posted earlier I like tab based mmos for a reason I dont dps because of the samething he said. I can do basic tank rotations and I can heal but I do tend to stay away from dps for one the ques and for a set based rotation but if I did and I was lookin at playing more summoner I did look at guides and follow mr happy and ms tech on youtube. But at the same time knowing your class, I think thats alot easier than the mechanics in this game , and I dont know if its even acceptable, but I really want to make a thread on what games are more difficult than this one. Cause Ive played other mmos and this one has some of the more dynamic mechanics from what Ive played of course their are harder ones but people act like this is the easiest of easy content when I have played some mmos that would put that lie to shame.

[DarkB]

I agree with you on the know your class and watch videos , but what I don't do is call content easy unless it actually is, because to be easy it would actually need to be easy to most people and I just dont feel as tho thats the case.

Otherwise why do so many people stop at the hard mood versions why is it so hard to get fc members to do a sync run with me but if I ask to do a pony farm then they are all for it. I do not see these mechanics as easy I find them as doable and possible but easy is sathasha , or all of the lowbie dungeons. There are hurdles thrown out there for different players just based on experience or what they are use to from other games. Thats the issue I see so much the word easy just being thrown out there so much thats why I said lets not look at things through our on lens, now are dungeons easier than extreme primals of course they are, but for some even dungeons can be challenging. When I think of easy , I think if I que up for this in duty finder then its no pressure Im going to be able to do this with ease get in and get out, I dont go into any primal thinking this because the content was not meant to be easy. Before I cleared even shiva ex, she is easier than some of the other primals but she isnt easy she isnt sathisa and several parties abandoned and left , people still whip on gaurda is it easier than other extreme primals yes but again it is no guildhiest level 10 and some people will find it pretty difficult.

I did ifrit hard mood the other day and like three people died , but maybe that was a degree of difficulty for them who am I to judge what that bar is. So yes knowing your class reading tool tips I personally I agree with and will always try to , do and like someone posted earlier I like tab based mmos for a reason I dont dps because of the samething he said. I can do basic tank rotations and I can heal but I do tend to stay away from dps for one the ques and for a set based rotation but if I did and I was lookin at playing more summoner I did look at guides and follow mr happy and ms tech on youtube. But at the same time knowing your class, I think thats alot easier than the mechanics in this game , and I dont know if its even acceptable, but I really want to make a thread on what games are more difficult than this one. Cause Ive played other mmos and this one has some of the more dynamic mechanics from what Ive played of course their are harder ones but people act like this is the easiest of easy content when I have played some mmos that would put that lie to shame.

well i guess we are entering the world of "subjective" here, what might be hard for you, might be easy for other people and vice versa.

I personally dont think the game content at the moment is very hard, some things yes require more tries and more dedication, but there is nothing like the old a3s Humanoid.

The thing with dungeons is that they are way too easy, you can, in almost all cases, ignore every mechanic, litterally stand on everything, eat all the damage, and the healer can outheal the incoming damage. Now this also shouldnt fall into "easy" category but lower in my opinion.

Personally i consider easy to learn any content that produces a pattern, rotation, sequence of skills, because once you learn that, you are done. When a mechanics happens, you already know what is the next mechanic and you are prepared.

this is why in my opinion (and i agree some other people might find it harder), pattern mechanic fights are easy to learn, especially if you have them written down and analyzed step by step.

All the fights in game have a pattern you can simply write it down and memorize, with that in mind you can start learning and getting better at the content, some people react faster, some dont, but i dont really feel like this game is hard at all.

I stopped playin xiv because of boredom for a very long time and i tried WoW which i always avoided like plague, now i dont wanna derail the topic into WoW comment, but that game is 10x easier than Xiv. Its litterally a braindead stomp, dungeon after dungeon, the mechanics introduced by mythic+ are so few that they are un noticeable.

the only difference is in damage done by monsters, some affix "diablo 3 style" and the hp of the monsters. Thats it. I was telling my friends about how i couldnt believe people could play that game (that also requires an addon even to move elements on UI, its simply retarded how bad it is, culdnt believe a game in subscription mode was in that status) being so easy. after a single week from start, never played before, fresh install, my brewmaster monk was iLvL 856.

The only way to improve my gear would been 24 man raid on highest difficulty. Its like saying after 1 week of FFXIV the only way to get an upgrade on your gear is to go Alexander Savage. That is how bad that game is.

So in a way i think WoW is 5x easier than XIV at least for me. Maybe because im used at XIV? I dont know i think this is subjective, i find easy to learn xiv mechanics, and incredibly easy to learn WoW mechanic. As another example i can tell you that Aion PVE endgame is harder than any other game i've ever played. Steel Wall Bastion is a nightmare in terms of difficulty compared to WoW and XIV.

Now back to xiv, i dont know why your FC doesnt do content with you, or prefer to pony farm, in the end its all about who you play with but some people dont really enjoy putting too much effort into improving, let alone help others.

Im a helper and always will be, people know me for being helpful on everything, but thats how i like to be, mmos are a multiplayer game where if you lack the community aspect, its basically useless to play, just go play diablo. So i hope you will find some people willing to help you and to play with you and explain you content and such, maybe look for another FC, trust me is very rare to find a FC that supports new player.

I am a very very old xiv and final fantasy player, i know where you coming from, i just believe your FC isnt dedicated enough to learn extreme fights, maybe because they dont care, or maybe because back then they got carried, or simply maybe becayse they are bored, i dont know.

Also yeah regarding ifrit, ifrit is quite old content but sometimes if you dont don that content regulary even very old players forget a mechanic sequence and step on a fire or get thrown off a platform on Titan lol, happens
Game mechanic is all about repeat and memorize, i dont know what more advice can i give you if not try to find some people like you that wants to get better and progress, even tho the game at the moment is pretty dead, its very hard to find active FC :/

[Kosmos992k]

The thing with dungeons is that they are way too easy, you can, in almost all cases, ignore every mechanic, litterally stand on everything, eat all the damage, and the healer can outheal the incoming damage. Now this also shouldnt fall into "easy" category but lower in my opinion.

Yes, and no.

Yes because you pretty much overgear the entire game except current end-game if you have current end-game gear, you can do as you suggest to an extent.

But if the dungeon is fully sync'd, say for example Aurum Vale, you can't. So very often people say things like what you did about older content being so very, very easy. But in truth it's only that way because of power creep, overgearing and insufficiently effective or strict level/ilvl sync. ignoring mechanics might bmake a dungeon easier, but it does not make the player more skilled.

[Ama_Hamada]

Most of the people are LAZY to an embarassing level. to learn your class it will take not more than 3 days, thats how easy it is. but you need to want it, you need to not wait for someone to help you, go out and find guides, use google, type whatever job you wanna learn "drg xiv rotation" for example.

goodluck

Shouldn't there be something in the game to discourage that? I do not care as much if someone on a DPS class is under-performing, it is tanks. What if you have a tank that never uses cool downs while in a DPS stance in places where it is unacceptable? Then it just over stresses the healer and the healer gets mouthed off at. Same can be said about people fast pulling city, and locking people out because of it.

[DarkB]

Shouldn't there be something in the game to discourage that? I do not care as much if someone on a DPS class is under-performing, it is tanks. What if you have a tank that never uses cool downs while in a DPS stance in places where it is unacceptable? Then it just over stresses the healer and the healer gets mouthed off at. Same can be said about people fast pulling city, and locking people out because of it.

completely agree with that, bare with me i took dps example, but that can be applied to every class, tank/healer/dps, everyone needs to learn their role.
And the point you make is the exact reason why the game is so easy, "shouldn't there be something in the game to discourage that?" Yes there should be, the fact that there is not, is the reason why the game is easy.
Gearing up in this game is ridicolously stupid, they just throw gear at you making almost 99% of the content obsolete and making you outgeared for almost everything, which brings us back to the facerolling dungeons.

Now after you faceroll a dungeon and you get presented with a challenging fight (not that challenging but for the sake of speaking) like savage, you are caught off guard, because in there you are not overgeared.

Reason why you must never measure your knowledge on your class by just going into a dungeon, you need to parse/practice/look for guides about the class, then apply to content. Most people dont take a suggestion in the good way, but they take it as a critic even when your intentions are the most helpful ones, because they think they are doing great and they dont want to take an advice from an unknown person in their party. They dont even consider that they are doing something wrong, this is what is frustrating.

I am personally a tank a dps and a healer, i strongly believe that playing one role only will just make you worse, you need vision and awareness of all other classes and roles, so yeah i know how frustrating is being a healer when you have bad tanks, or bad dps that forces you to dps on their place, or bosses that dont die so the fight gets dragged forever requiring you to heal to the impossible. But see? these are simply lack of knowledge on their respective classes, nothing more, mechanic is always secondary.

When people will stop with the mentality "oh let other people do the job in my spot", nothing will really change. When you enter a content you should at least be prepared for that, because you are not playing alone, there are other people with you, and its extremely selfish to waste their time or even make the game unfun because of that. Unless everybody agreed on a learning pt and such.

But again, the reason behind all this mess is simpy one, lazyness and lack of will to get better. On any level, from tank to heal.