Weird english

[Daranion]

It's always either cats, Balmungians, or Lalafell isn't it? Also, as many have stated before there is no original script. When you set the audio to Japanese, you are hearing the Japanese translated version of the English script, but it's also the other way around. All this talk of "not the original Japanese reeee" is very pointless and factually incorrect. Heck, I'm pretty sure the English is the original when it comes to some of the dragons and Ishgard scenes considering their language is developed by Koji and not the other way around. Its way more heavily skewed towards the JAPANESE being wrong than any other. But we can't have that in a JRPG can we?

[Lukha]

I never disagreed. The entire point was to get you to stop claiming there was an "original" and that the English localisation "suffers" or some nonsense like that. That's what started this entire argument.

But there is definitely an 'original', insofar as each segment MUST have first been written in one language or another and then translated; there's really no way or reason doing it any other way would make sense. It is certainly possible, even likely that the various storylines originate in different languages, because that would be the most efficient way to produce a lot of content at the fastest possible rate! But for there to be 'no original would imply that multiple teams were writing essentially the same storyline concurrently, only in different languages, which would be a terrible waste of time and resources, and also make the existence of a translation/localization team unnecessary.

Also it would go against what Fox has actually said, which, unless I recall incorrectly, was that some things are originally produced in English and translated into the other languages, while some other things originate in Japanese and are translated into the other languages. Which means, yes, that there is a definite and traceable original version! It's just that the original version might be different depending on what specific piece of content you're talking about (Case in point: Hildebrand. As I said previously, I would put a lot of money on that originating in English and likely from Fox specifically, because it's got his dorky style of humor all over it and is the one part of the game where that actually works and doesn't feel horrifically pasted on).

Story/plot, lore and characters are all still exactly the same (as far as I know). If a character seems different, then it's either because the team decided to give them a little extra personality (Matoya), or tone them down a tiny bit (Haurchefant).

Ooooh dear. Wrong, in fact. In Matoya's case it's fairly small; she's mostly the same crotchety old lady in Japanese, just a bit less mean about it. In Haurchefant's case, their misguided attempts at 'localizing' him botched his early MSQ character so badly that he was basically unrecognizable, and when he appeared later in the story (And in the first Heavensturn event) there were actually theories in the English speaking fandom that he'd been Tempered and was going to betray the WoL...

The English team assumed he'd be a one-off character we'd never seen again, and decided to make him into a fairly staid Stalwart Knight type of character, out of worry that his over-the-top affection for the WoL (And Adventurers in general) might rustle a few jimmies. I'd love to have seen their reactions a few patches later when his being the #1 WoL fanboy actually became a major plot-point vitally important to the lead-in to the first expansion...

In fact, it was so bad that the localization team actually issued a public apology for doing it. The post also makes it very clear that at least those scenes concerning Haurchefant definitely originated in Japanese and were translated/localized from Japanese into the other languages...meaning that Japanese would, in this case, be the definitive original.



I suspect we'll never come to an accord on this, given that I am firmly in the camp that 'Localization' and 'Translation' are not, in fact, meant to be different things. It's one thing to change a joke that no longer works linguistically; that is an important part of the translation process, because the goal is to ensure that all audiences are getting a similar experience. It's entirely another to make a humorous moment serious or (as FFXIV's localization is particularly guilty of) add a joke where there was none, because in that case you're changing the experience. If you feel the need to put 'your own spin' or stamp your personality on a translation of someone else's work, then you should probably go make your own original content instead, because you're failing both the original creator and the audience by adulterating the final product based on your own personal tastes or agenda.

Name ten characters who specifically talk with a thee, thy and thou dialect.
Then name ten who do not specifically talk with a thee, thy and thou dialect.

You might be surprised with what you will find and that the English language has multiple dialects (once again, we've come full circle).

Right, and given that Eorzea is not on Earth, it is totally reasonable that it would have a unique dialect and even entirely different terms, or even use existing terms in unusual ways. I really don't see why this is a difficult concept or might possibly be seen as bad in any way.

Though I will admit, Urianger could stand to be a little more plain-spoken in English, since I am given to understand that his speech patterns aren't quite so antiquated in Japanese.

[Berethos]

Name ten characters who specifically talk with a thee, thy and thou dialect.
Then name ten who do not specifically talk with a thee, thy and thou dialect.

You might be surprised with what you will find and that the English language has multiple dialects (once again, we've come full circle).

Don't bother, you'll just end up going in circles over and over. No amount of pointing out how relatively modern (as in newer that Medieval, sometimes by several centuries, but still avoiding modern terms) the vast majority of the English translation is will ever get that poster to get away from their "but it's medieval theme!" rut that they are stuck in.

[AshlikeSnow]

snip

The problem that I found in the English localization was with the reoccurring roles with specific characters in the MSQ. Obviously these characters are vital to the MSQ and because of that it makes their dialogue extremely important. So its not a question about naming 10, 15, 20 characters, the problem is that the important dialogue has been translated far different and the fact that I use Japanese audio and had played with the UI in English the differences were astonishing. The certain manner in which these characters are written in English falls flat for me and so when my friends in game talk about having a difficult time with the dialogue in the story I can totally feel their disappointment. Key characters use that medieval speech and are written in this way and I just wonder is it really necessary? Of course this all subjective, if you like it then that's fine for you but I don't.

[Vaeria]

Just speaking for the Heavensward storyline and Ishgard in full, the translation team/voice actors did an excelling job all the way around. No need to touch a single thing. The 'Old Engrish" style sets the tone of the realm perfectly.

[Lukha]

snip

But the style of the dialogue the game uses and the changes made to characters in translation are really two separate issues. The archaic English is just a dialect of the language, and so there's no reason in the world that you couldn't use it and still have an accurate translation. The fact that the translation is poor is nothing to do with the dialect used and everything to do with the integrity of the translators and editors.

[AshlikeSnow]

But the style of the dialogue the game uses and the changes made to characters in translation are really two separate issues. The archaic English is just a dialect of the language, and so there's no reason in the world that you couldn't use it and still have an accurate translation. The fact that the translation is poor is nothing to do with the dialect used and everything to do with the integrity of the translators and editors.

Well to get specific I remember a scene with Midgardsomr in Japanese

"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

まさか、特異の者なのか？星よ・・・この者に力を貸せと、我に願うのか！

I understood "Can it be you find him special? Hydaelyn you wish me to grant him power?"

"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

seriously??

In ARR scholar was my main and the English Translation on the scholar skills was also baffling. In the Japanese version of Scholar the Job is about being tactical and devising a plan of attack and defense, for example Sacred Soil in the Japanese work is "Field Treatment Formation" and Adloquium is "Encouragement Plan" Succor is "Inspiring Plan" and that really just sets how different one Job can be when its translated so differently there is an incredible difference with scholar in the English localization and I tell my friends about this and their surprised about how tactical scholar is in the original work.

[Enur]

Urianger is supposed to be barely understandable. Its a part of hid character; who he is. He spent so much of his life pouring over ancient texts his language became affected by it. If the rest of Eorzea speaks victorian english then he is meant to speak middle english.

[Yasuhiro]

If it was only in my head

But it is, be snarky for those sweet likes all you want. I just said I prefer the Japanese dialect, never said which is better or not so there's no agenda on my part.

also

Can there be a rule enforced so people don't just post crappy meme images that contribute nothing?
Again, https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/ is right up your alley for that stuff.

[Nestama]

But there is definitely...

To be fair, the whole ‘original’ thing came about because AshlikeSnow lorded it around as it being the only way FFXIV should be. If a character talks differently (“thou art strong, mortal”), then to them, that is apparently the localisation team failing to be faithful to the Japanese script to some extent. Person in question appears to also believes that medieval speech is all there is, when that’s really far from the truth (unless they've changed their stance and conceded, then good for them). There is ye olde, but then there’s also yar pirates, ‘normal English,’ cockney, Victorian English, etc.

Ooooh dear. Wrong, in fact. In Matoya's case...

Alrighty, I’ll concede with the Haurchefant… though to be honest, I still like what we got in the end (and it seems many others feel the same way). Reading into that, though, it seems that the localisation team must always get their work proof read before anything is put into the game. They also ask questions and such regarding a character and cutscene and see to it that everything is right with the plot/lore. This means that the English localisation team was given the okay to have Matoya being cheeky (not harsh, unless there was more after that ‘flirt’ quip) with Alphinaud. This also means they are given the okay for the choice in multiple dialects.

I suspect we'll never come to an accord on this...

And you are entitled to that opinion, but remember that Eorzea has multiple cultures that tend to borrow from English history and I’m sure even in Japanese they try to fit the dialect of the location (makes me wonder how the pirates of Limsa Lominsa speak in Japanese). Also like I said before, the English localisation team pretty much works with the Japanese team as they’re making the world and story, so the team(s) are going to ask who this person is, what their gimmick is and where they sit in the story and if they’re given the okay to give that character a little spice, then that’s what they’ll do (Matoya being cheeky) and you cannot fault them on this as they ASKED.

I am pretty darn sure the English localisation team will be asking a lot of questions for the day we ever step foot into Othard, as that place is pretty much the Asia of Hydaelyn (so we can potentially expect Asian dialects there. Which specifically? we do not know).

Right, and given that Eorzea is not on Earth...

It's much easier to go back into history and look up old (and current) dialects that may fit the character and setting. Easier to match a voice for the culture, so to say. I’ll admit that Urianger is pretty hipster in his ye olde speech, when everyone else around him talk normally (it makes sense for Primals and dragons, as they’re kinda from ye olde times. Maybe Ascians, too). At least we have some made up languages in the game, being Dragonspeak and to some extent, High Sylphic (currently only heard in Ramuh’s lyrics?).

Unrelated edit: I was going to keep all your arguments in the quote bubbles, but... well, that'd just make my post unnecessarily too big, don't you agree? Cleaned it up.