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  1. #171
    Player
    BruceyBruceyBangBang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,678
    Character
    Boye Fran
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1 View Post
    it would only be overwhelming if they have the mental capacity of a 5 year old. there has been very few things added since release. if i can complete it all then they can too. by stating they can't you are just saying that they can't set goals and reach them without the easy mode handouts. congrats, it's a tough skill to master being able to take up for and insult the same group of people at once, but you made it look easy.

    once again if the people that started on release could complete the stuff in game then the people coming in after them can do the same thing. to state they cannot is pure insulting to those people.
    Did I insult you? I was just trying to make a point and be empathetic regarding new players. Something that I don't see many other people talking about. All that I see are people holding onto their exclusivity and fear of losing their supposed status in progression.

    There is a reason why it's fast right now. There is also a reason why you think there is little content, but I'm not going to be a broken record.

    Also, I've seen you around here since forums have opened up. You did not have all the content up until now released to you all at once. You've completed it as was released, I'm assuming, or else you wouldn't be so thirsty for new content. This would not be true with a new player. This is the point I'm trying to make. Grindy progression based leveling would not tempt this desired player base. Clearly, the player base who do not mind the grind are all here already. If we did mind it, we would have been gone a long time ago. Time for some growth and time to start thinking about other markets and other players interests instead of focusing on something that very little people want and are probably not going to be rewarded of.

    Which, honestly, I think is to get their MMORPG nostalgia back. It's not going to happen. Ever. It's impossible. The circumstances surrounding that feeling on what the ideal MMORPG is, for them, cannot be recreated. It is a series of in game and outside influences that surrounded their life and made them happy in those moments that created that feeling. It cannot be recreated. So, just let the game become what the devs mean for it to be and not locked in a bubble of your nostalgia. Drawn out progression systems are the old MMORPG. The one you need to leave behind.
    (2)

  2. #172
    Player
    GemGenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Natalie Barbay
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1 View Post
    it's rather pathetic that people would want to come into a multiplayer game and not group up to learn how to play their classes. if you want the easy way completion there are plenty of rpg's you can use cheat codes and get there.
    Wow. So there really some people think that grinding weak mobs for months is the way to learn your class. Is ff target for age 3+? Yoship pls answer
    (0)

  3. #173
    Player
    Shneibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,076
    Character
    Shneibel Panipahr
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GemGenie View Post
    Wow. So there really some people think that grinding weak mobs for months is the way to learn your class. Is ff target for age 3+? Yoship pls answer
    before you start to insult or try to provoke the flame, re-read the fist post of the thread first , re-read your quote and re-read your reply.

    remind: this thread is not about grind, not about hardcore vs casual, not about grind fest or not about I love to grind. It is about the exp from party & pl
    (2)

  4. #174
    Player
    AtryxEtair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    143
    Character
    Atryx Etair
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by GemGenie View Post
    Wow. So there really some people think that grinding weak mobs for months is the way to learn your class. Is ff target for age 3+? Yoship pls answer
    Where is the logic behind this? You can be skilled without killing the same things for inordinate amounts of time? Of course! But I can guarantee 99.9% all those skilled players have been playing stat based MMOs and RPGs for years. That in itself is a grind. They know what they are doing because they have done it before a million other time in a million other games. The problem is the new people. When you new it something it takes PRACTICE. So let's talk about PRACTICE.

    A few of the most acclaimed skills in today's society...artwork, professional athleticism, singing, public speaking, and acting. How do people get good at these things. Yes, many are born with a natural born talent and understanding but it is by no means given to them.

    How does one get good at painting? They paint a boat, then they paint the same thing but better. And again and again and again. How do professional athletes practice? They focus 90% of their time and effort in the fundamentals. Passing, dribbling, shooting, running, jumping, ect. How does one get better at singing? They sing a song, then again, but better, and again and again and again. How do people get better at public speech? They practice the same speech in front of a mirror for hours a day, days on end until it's perfect. How do people get better at acting? They take the scene and act it out a hundred times until its perfect.

    They put in all this hard work so they can be the best they can be when the times comes.

    There is no easy way to increase your fundamental skill at something. If there was a way around having to work to be good at something then life would be pointless. Yes! This is a game and it's supposed to be fun and enjoyable, but it should also take time. Even though there are many of us who can be GREAT at it without spending countless hours. But there are also just as many if not more who can't. And it isn't fair to be shot to the top of something past everyone else in a game just because of how "awesome" you are. Or how bad it hurts your ego if you aren't.

    TL;DR
    If you want to be good at something, it will take hard work and time...period. However, I agree it needs to be fun and enjoyable because this is a game. And you don't deserve to be pampered for being a better player. (Rewards excluded of course)

    If you don't want to spend a large amount of effort into increasing your character's power. Then be prepared to sacrifice you characters worth and the quality of the community as well.
    (3)
    Last edited by AtryxEtair; 11-28-2011 at 07:37 PM.

  5. #175
    Player
    GemGenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Natalie Barbay
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shneibel View Post
    before you start to insult or try to provoke the flame, re-read the fist post of the thread first , re-read your quote and re-read your reply.

    remind: this thread is not about grind, not about hardcore vs casual, not about grind fest or not about I love to grind. It is about the exp from party & pl
    I did read your 1st post. Reducing exp to the point where people who can afford to play 4 hrs a day should spend a month to lv to 50.

    Did u consider the amount of time required to get a decent party?

    Did u consider 50 is not the end of it!

    Either way, I cannot speak for everyone but for myself when I'm in a normal xp party, it's just the easiest content in the game, or to me it's no skill as simple button bashing. Do u think it need major team work or strategy for xp party? Therefore I prefer this kind of stuff to be as minimal as possible.

    For me, i think things like prime battles or hnm back in ff11 is the critical path to learn ur job because this is where u have to maximize ur ability in order to survive. Therefore I prefer more content of this

    You may say SE should add low lv content to make low lv ppl happy so that xp curve can be steeper. And that people no need to grind to lv cap asap. But human player will always try to advance higher lv and that's the way it is. So after all, reducing xp gain is simply making ppl suffer in grinding fest.

    When ff14 first introduce, one point the director made is this game should not be too intensive as ff11 so no more mass production of "haijin", who play mmo 24/7. Of course that director failed totally and I hope yoship should reiterate this focus.

    4hr daily play time is already too intensive unless u r jobless + schooless. With considering there r other ppl who have girlfriend, family and real life friend, it will be even more difficult to get 4 hr on this everyday. U may say if such a case this game is not for ppl like me. Then it's up to SE rather they still want money from the group of ppl like me or not
    (1)

  6. #176
    Player
    GemGenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Natalie Barbay
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    AtryxEtair, grinding on xp party or grinding NMs and heavy teamwork content are different ways to build up ur skill. Which one do u prefer?

    I prefer going on nm hunt with fds everyday.
    (2)

  7. #177
    Player
    Shneibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,076
    Character
    Shneibel Panipahr
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GemGenie View Post
    I did read your 1st post. Reducing exp to the point where people who can afford to play 4 hrs a day should spend a month to lv to 50.

    Did u consider the amount of time required to get a decent party?

    Did u consider 50 is not the end of it!

    Either way, I cannot speak for everyone but for myself when I'm in a normal xp party, it's just the easiest content in the game, or to me it's no skill as simple button bashing. Do u think it need major team work or strategy for xp party? Therefore I prefer this kind of stuff to be as minimal as possible.

    For me, i think things like prime battles or hnm back in ff11 is the critical path to learn ur job because this is where u have to maximize ur ability in order to survive. Therefore I prefer more content of this

    You may say SE should add low lv content to make low lv ppl happy so that xp curve can be steeper. And that people no need to grind to lv cap asap. But human player will always try to advance higher lv and that's the way it is. So after all, reducing xp gain is simply making ppl suffer in grinding fest.

    When ff14 first introduce, one point the director made is this game should not be too intensive as ff11 so no more mass production of "haijin", who play mmo 24/7. Of course that director failed totally and I hope yoship should reiterate this focus.

    4hr daily play time is already too intensive unless u r jobless + schooless. With considering there r other ppl who have girlfriend, family and real life friend, it will be even more difficult to get 4 hr on this everyday. U may say if such a case this game is not for ppl like me. Then it's up to SE rather they still want money from the group of ppl like me or not
    if 2-3 weeks is a month for you then your life span should be really short.

    The amount of time to get a party is depend on the player available, the lvl and the will if they want to pt with you or they do other stuff.

    You dont need a strategy or much brain cell for exp party but for the party to be effective you need team work and some rules to prevent wipe, play individual in a party only slow your party down.

    a day have 24h:

    you woke up at 6-7 am.
    you go to work/college and free at 15:30 (the time I am free) or 17:30.
    IF you have family, and your wife know you like game, you should have at least a minimum of 2h gaming/day (2h is a lie, I had see ppl with family play 4h/day or more)

    4hr daily play time is already too intensive unless u r jobless + schooless
    this is nonsence

    With considering there r other ppl who have girlfriend, family and real life friend, it will be even more difficult to get 4 hr on this everyday.
    if you prefer them over gaming, then it is your choose, speaking of this. Because of you who conside other stuff over gaming wish for the game become easy so you can play VS ppl who consider gaming over those or manager to do both effective. Who of us are selfish ?
    (1)

  8. 11-28-2011 08:29 PM
    Reason
    Inflammatory, inappropriate comments.

  9. #178
    Player
    Sephrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,900
    Character
    Sephrick Markarius
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    The "grind to learn you role" is kind of a moot point with 1.20 and 1.21 coming.

    How many of the level 50 players will know how to use the new combo system? How many will know how to play jobs?

    Does anyone really suspect that the player base will say "well, they completely changed my main's abilities. I had better kill even match mobs for three months before I touch that Dark Moogle battle so I don't look like a noob"?

    No one learns their role through exp parties. They only learn the basics of party mechanics. The more casual player will take longer to level and thus have more time to wrap their head around it. Those of us that are more seasoned gamers who might take significantly less time to level already get it - tanks tanks, DDs do damage, mages heal. And by 2.0 we'll be doing all of that in very different ways than we do now.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sephrick; 11-28-2011 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #179
    Player
    AtryxEtair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    143
    Character
    Atryx Etair
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by GemGenie View Post
    AtryxEtair, grinding on xp party or grinding NMs and heavy teamwork content are different ways to build up ur skill. Which one do u prefer?

    I prefer going on nm hunt with fds everyday.
    The majority would say NM hunting, but that proposes many issues if the NMs are limited. For the sake of the argument let's say you're in a perpetual un-timed instance were you hunt NMs til you're done. To make this challenging enough to be more entertaining than grinding lowbies it would need to be difficult and would therefore lack flexibility when it comes to the amount of players and the party setup. Again for the sake of the argument, let's say the jobs will be balanced so well that there will be no ideal setup to do this. And putting a group together would take no over the top thought or planning. Then this is in effect is just a form of grinding with bigger numbers (in the most ideal situation). Not considering the drops.

    I would suggest combining the two so that if you you were at a camp with a party, after you've killed a set X amount of the same type of mob. A mob would spawn that would look no different than the rest you're killing but have x20 the HP and a few more difficult to deal with abilities. Beating this mob could grant you a slew of rewards e.x. double exp for X amount of time, double spirit bond, a crazy party buff, something to enhance the gameplay. No drops to eliminate competition of superior camps.

    The trick being to find a balance of being as efficient as possible while retaining the ability for a long intense fight without knowing when it's coming until you're already engaged. It could even give that leve animation when the monsterchanges from one thing to another.

    All of the "Buried" NMs (BNMs) could also have a one time key item drop that would unlock fighting the creature in its hyper mode in a battlefield you can be prepared for that rewarded with a chink exp reward.

    That would be my ideal leveling experience evoid of all the little cool stuff you could do on the side. Which conveniently isn't the topic of discussion.
    (1)

  11. #180
    Player
    GemGenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Natalie Barbay
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by AtryxEtair View Post
    The majority would say NM hunting, but that proposes many issues if the NMs are limited. For the sake of the argument let's say you're in a perpetual un-timed instance were you hunt NMs til you're done. To make this challenging enough to be more entertaining than grinding lowbies it would need to be difficult and would therefore lack flexibility when it comes to the amount of players and the party setup. Again for the sake of the argument, let's say the jobs will be balanced so well that there will be no ideal setup to do this. And putting a group together would take no over the top thought or planning. Then this is in effect is just a form of grinding with bigger numbers (in the most ideal situation). Not considering the drops.

    I would suggest combining the two so that if you you were at a camp with a party, after you've killed a set X amount of the same type of mob. A mob would spawn that would look no different than the rest you're killing but have x20 the HP and a few more difficult to deal with abilities. Beating this mob could grant you a slew of rewards e.x. double exp for X amount of time, double spirit bond, a crazy party buff, something to enhance the gameplay. No drops to eliminate competition of superior camps.

    The trick being to find a balance of being as efficient as possible while retaining the ability for a long intense fight without knowing when it's coming until you're already engaged. It could even give that leve animation when the monsterchanges from one thing to another.

    All of the "Buried" NMs (BNMs) could also have a one time key item drop that would unlock fighting the creature in its hyper mode in a battlefield you can be prepared for that rewarded with a chink exp reward.

    That would be my ideal leveling experience evoid of all the little cool stuff you could do on the side. Which conveniently isn't the topic of discussion.
    Yes, and I think it depends how SE going to implement it.
    It is not necessary must be HNM type fight. There can be NM for full party, light party or even solo.

    or even dynamis type events (well, hopefully not 3hrs type), or dungeon type of thing.

    In addition, this game also focusing on many vs many, so strategy type of battle also can be a good thing.
    (0)

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