Thread: How would they fix PLD 4.0?

PLD Needs....
.... Damage on Flash
.... Some kind of useful utility coming from Shield Oath, boosted regens to resources would be nice or a continuous enemy(ies) debuff while active in range of them
.... Something... anything to Sword Oath. Hell in regards to Shield Oath too, maybe different effects to some skills like how Viper and Wasp effect skills in Ninja.

well. that was a not-so-interesting mishmash of comments from people who think all classes should just be different types of dps, actually responses, and not-so-constructive criticism. welp, time to throw my sword into the proverbial pile.


the following suggestions are going to relate to their shield, one of the two actual unique features that paladin has. and no. I'm not touching flash. seriously, all it does is make a bright light. how the hell do bright lights do damage besides blinding. we're not bashing someones head in with a flashlight people. unless they do indeed get rid of classes all together, in that case i suggest we rename it to Diaga and give it low potency.

Reduce potency of CoS (either dot or potency, not both)
slightly increase it's CD time (no more than 40%)
give it a chance to refresh on successfully blocking (around the same amount as low blow does).
This would allow a pld to do somewhat acceptable damage in an aoe situation, while still preventing it from being unfavorably underwhelming.

Shield swipe becomes usable in sword oath, procs off of the end of an attack combo (either FB/SB/RA combo, or a new one.)
Shield swipe loses 15 potency if activated in this method.
Shield swipe only pacifies if ability is activated via blocking.
This change is probably the most inane, but i personally just hate potential damage that goes unused because you just so happen to not be the main tank at the time.

paladin needs a tp refresh skill. i don't care if it's like equilibrium, invigorate, or goad. it needs one. FFXI had an ability called "chivalry." maybe like that, but it converts mp to tp?

change the order of damage rolls. it should be block and/or parry before critical, not the other way around. an attack should have to get through your skill-based defenses before it has a chance to score a critical blow.


the rest are the pertaining to holy abilities.
frankly, most of the abilities that paladin has received job-wise is fine. two holy abilities we got in heavensward -clemency and divine veil- are both solid.
to expand on this oh-so-massive repertoire there should definitely be more abilities like this.

here are some possible options. and yes, i did lift a few skills from XI.
Holy Circle: all party members in a short radius receive reduced damage from the next magic-based attack. the paladin who activates this skill does not benefit (damage reduced should be a flat number. could be based on level, hp of recipient, or any other factor)
Sacrifice: transfer enfeeblement from target to self.
Embolden: consumes x amount of total mp to gradually restore a target's hp (or all of embrava's effect. in that case it would be hp and mp regen + haste)

Originally Posted by saber_alter

Reduce potency of CoS (either dot or potency, not both)
slightly increase it's CD time (no more than 40%)
give it a chance to refresh on successfully blocking (around the same amount as low blow does).
This would allow a pld to do somewhat acceptable damage in an aoe situation, while still preventing it from being unfavorably underwhelming.

Considering the refresh is tied to blocking, it will do nothing for AoE situation when you are not the MT. Building on that, a very easy and less convoluted solution would be to make Shield Swipe a conal AoE on GCD. (With adjusted potency and TP cost)

Chivalry could be interesting, but I'd say it could swap your MP and TP (percentage-wise), to cover situation where you need a boost of MP.

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Chivalry could be interesting, but I'd say it could swap your MP and TP (percentage-wise), to cover situation where you need a boost of MP.

*spams clemency, uses chivalry, spams more clemency* infinittte clemencyyy

Originally Posted by LilLemay

*spams clemency, uses chivalry, spams more clemency* wait for the cooldown on Chivalry

Fixed that for you

My thoughts on a few things that could help PLD:

Give PLD a reason to use / manage MP
This could help make the PLD a better OT while simultaneously helping with TP issues. For example, what if clemency gave a small damage buff to the target party member:
* The dps increase could more than make up for the dps loss of casting
* PLD isnt using TP while casting
* OTing lets PLD use MP restoration combos more frequently.

Rework Block
PLD is the only one really using the block mechanic. There is opportunity here. My suggestion would be that a successful block gives vulnerability up to the target who was blocked, which does 2 things:
* Increases PLDs MT party contribution vs physical
* Increases the PLDs AoE damage contribution (again vs physical)

An important thing to note about this is that the above benefits of a block rework exist while in or out of tank stance. PLD gets crap for poor AoE, but the lack of direct AoE damage is one of the things that makes PLD unique IMO: They get such horrible returns on Sword Oath in a large pull that it behooves them to use Shield Oath, and I dont think that is such a bad thing.

Give pali shield oath at level 30, cut the MP cost of clemency to 500. They need to cut the aoe ability cd to ten seconds, and cut CD of spirits within compelty.

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering the refresh is tied to blocking, it will do nothing for AoE situation when you are not the MT. Building on that, a very easy and less convoluted solution would be to make Shield Swipe a conal AoE on GCD. (With adjusted potency and TP cost)

Chivalry could be interesting, but I'd say it could swap your MP and TP (percentage-wise), to cover situation where you need a boost of MP.

Though, the more practical application for that would be to swap in typically useless mana for infinite TP, recovering the remainder of said otherwise mostly useless mana via passive regeneration and GB combos in order to then swap it again as soon as the CD's up. With the present conventional (non-)use of Clemency, the only real issue would be to ensure that you have enough TP (-> MP) to Flash a few times before adds spawn, which would mean using it soon enough after Chivalry falls off CD, with mana maximized (thereby making Clemency even less desirable until the MP and TP values are swapped).

Originally Posted by bswpayton

Give pali shield oath at level 30, cut the MP cost of clemency to 500. They need to cut the aoe ability cd to ten seconds, and cut CD of Spirits Within completely.

When factoring in Convalescence, which affects only Healing Spells (not Healing Abilities), Paladin already has the highest healing output over time of the three tanks. At present, it almost requires those lost GCDs just to balance out that potential. I could understand wanting it not to disrupt combos, or to give it some small auxiliary function (within the same role of an emergency heal), but such a low MP cost would mean the 1200-1680 potency heal could, on average, be used once per combo, or to deal over 10000 potency of healing per minute, while a Warrior averages to a mere 1800 per minute, getting only mildly closer through the doubled duration of Bloodbath.

Circle of Scorn is already tied for the strongest direct AoE oGCD in the game, at an equal 10 pps, same as the Monk's Elixir Field, pre-multipliers. Only the field AoE abilities, Flaming Arrow and Salted Earth, and the Summoner's long-CDed Enkindle are stronger. Note also that ALL of the Paladin damaging abilities create the same maximal pps—Shield Swipe deals 150 per 15, CoS does 250 per 25, and SW does 300 per 30 (up to 10 pps in each case). And these make up a substantial part of overall Paladin damage. Increasing CoS dps by 150% would be the equivalent of adding a free Flare to your tri-combo rotation.

And removing the cooldown from Spirits Within completely? What? That would increase overall Paladin dps by some 227%, so long as they stay at maximum health. Double-weaved, that would be an extra 600 potency per GCD, which previously averaged to a mere ~470 each.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Though, the more practical application for that would be to swap in typically useless mana for infinite TP

Since PLD is the only tank to have access to real "spells", I'd rather make those MP more useful.
Like I said before, if Clemency would have a barrier effect, it would be a much better skill. And I hope PLD will have more spells in Stormblood.

Originally Posted by Reynhart

if Clemency would have a barrier effect

mmmm more like a regen effect, barrier effects or get overpower like scholar ones or get pretty useless on combat like stoneskin, but all depens too of how they desing the new combats and how the jobs go to interact in the expansion too, i belive a regen can be more universal and usefull for paladin if they add a effect on clemency.