Linear dungeons arent the issue

[Dzian]

The totorak in 1.0 was even better. The final boss was different depending on what path you chose..

I was going to mention this. and it's something I miss. be nice if more bosses had multiple bosses depending on routes and paths etc.

trouble is. it would require dungeons to actually be relevant content. and not dead on arrival tome grinds that they currently are. because if they weren't relevant the only routes people would ever take are the quickest ones to getthe tomes. rather than optional ones for loot.

Toto-rak is one of the most hated dungeons in the game..

That's mostly just because of that annoyingly long leadeny bit that makes you move so slow. practicly triples the time the run takesjust walking through that stuff...

[Zojha]

practicly triples the time the run takesjust walking through that stuff...

And yet, Toto-rak doesn't last longer than other leveling dungeons. I've purposely been looking at the timers every time I run it via roulette. And even if I point it out, the main retort is:"It still 'feels' slow."

That said, I'm pretty sure people don't mind the optional rooms in Toto-Rak right now - nobody but newbies even looks their way. Same goes for Sastasha or Quarn.

Putting relevant loot behind optional rooms/paths is somewhat dangerous in a duty finder environment. There's nothing stopping a person from just leaving the duty once they got their loot and likewise, nothing stopping them from leaving if the group takes a path that doesn't lead to their desired loot. Then a new healer joins, sees you took the path that doesn't lead to the hot healer piece and leaves again. And the classic:"Either you go and kill that optional boss or you can kick me and wait for a new tank." Been through that in several games, I'm glad it's not a thing here.
You can catch a glimpse of that behaviour during the early days of new 24 man raids, where it's common that people leave after the boss that dropped the item they wanted. Tends to subside once nobody cares about the loot anymore however.

You need to put the main incentive on duty completion, else you're just asking for trouble.

[Canadane]

Putting relevant loot behind optional rooms/paths is somewhat dangerous in a duty finder environment. There's nothing stopping a person from just leaving the duty once they got their loot and likewise, nothing stopping them from leaving if the group takes a path that doesn't lead to their desired loot. Then a new healer joins, sees you took the path that doesn't lead to the hot healer piece and leaves again. And the classic:"Either you go and kill that optional boss or you can kick me and wait for a new tank." Been through that in several games, I'm glad it's not a thing here.

You may misunderstand. Back in 1.0 you took different routes to different bosses. They weren't optional bosses, each boss ended the dungeon.

[Enur]

You may misunderstand. Back in 1.0 you took different routes to different bosses. They weren't optional bosses, each boss ended the dungeon.

Did the different routes grant different loot? If thats the case then i wouldnt want that to happen ever. In the DF environment that would only cause grief.

"I wanna go route A cause i need pants!"
"No i wanna go route B cause its the fastest"
"What about route C guys? It gives us the shoes i've been looking for"

Most people are selfish when paired with strangers. Only f the Duty Finder was abolished or a new type of "Hardcore Dungeon" (by hardcore i dont necessarily mean harder just smarter) was introduced i dont see that happening, even if it does sound amazingly good and RPG'ish.

[Chevronone]

I think the linear dungeons removed players who actually NEED XP from experiencing griefing if they ask for a "full clear". Imagine a DPS sitting in queue for 25+m and getting a track star tank who wants in and out?

At least with the linear dungeons, all the XP that is available in the instance can't be avoided...for the most part. God forbid you wake a slumbering Dragon in The Aery and it's like you just ruined some orphan's first Christmas...

[Dzian]

Did the different routes grant different loot? If thats the case then i wouldnt want that to happen ever. In the DF environment that would only cause grief.

"I wanna go route A cause i need pants!"
"No i wanna go route B cause its the fastest"
"What about route C guys? It gives us the shoes i've been looking for"

Most people are selfish when paired with strangers. Only f the Duty Finder was abolished or a new type of "Hardcore Dungeon" (by hardcore i dont necessarily mean harder just smarter) was introduced i dont see that happening, even if it does sound amazingly good and RPG'ish.

Yup they did. different end bosses had different loot.

It was a cool a system but it would not work in a duty finder environment. Because on the one hand to be successful the loot and rewards would have to be relevant drops. and this wouldn't work in duty finder because like you said everyone you got matched with would want to fight a different boss to get the drops they want.

on the other hand if the loot and rewards weren't relevant then the only route players would take would be the fastest one because all they'd be interested in is the daily tomes reward and thus the optional routes and bosses would never see the light of day..

the third problem is that if this type content existed outside of a duty finder environment with any degree of relevant rewards and gear then a lot of people would be making the same requests they are for palace of the dead and demanding it be opened up in the duty finder even though it would never work for previously mentioned reasons..

it's why you don't really see structured end game enviroments anymore. because its all built around duty finder. and as palace of the dead shows with 101-200 any content that actually requires making a team for players to do. people complain about because they can't just duty finder it. and when people do try and make groups for it they try to marathon the whole thing in one session often requiring best part of a full day only to then say it's inaccessible because players don't want to commit that kind of time in one session. it's kind of the same with savage statics where players expect everyone to be there 5 nights a week. and wonder why people say sod that...

so if you had an end game environment where you had to actually work as a team and clear entire areas kill bosses and built up a set of items to unlock a god fight or something it wouldn't work in duty finder. If you played XI ever. Temenos and Appollyon were 2 of the best endgame activiites around for a long time. but you'd never have that kind of system work in a duty finder.

it's a real shame. especially as players have been asking for this kind of structured content designed around fcs and teamwork since before beta. something that actually means fcs are more than just chat channels.

Been my wish for the longest time that this game actually had structured content designed around fcs and groups of players. dungeons with optional routes and multiple bosses depending on the routes you take or structured end game that isn't just queue into one instanced battle then queue into the next..

POTD 101-200 is about as close as the game has come in that regard yet though.