How can SE make sure in melee Range RDM isnt squishy as a caster?

[Zigabar]

Everyone here is acting like they just never take any damage at all haha, I,ve never had a run as a dps where I took zero damage at all why else would healers have aoe heals.

I don't think anyone here is saying DPS don't take damage at all. Room-wide AOE damage is a thing, an unavoidable thing. Standing right behind the enemies circle or across the room isn't going to stop that damage from coming. BLM's tend to stand back to avoid -avoidable- AOE's targeted at their fellow party members. They are a turret job. The less they move the better. SMN is not a turret job and can stand right behind the enemy and be fine, in fact it's encouraged for auto-attack - a DPS increase. RDM is going to be fine with whatever gear they're given if they need to stand in melee range, as long as the player knows how to dodge avoidable damage. Like every other job.

[Canadane]

I don't understand the issue.
Just don't be in AOEs.

[Madrone]

Defense matters. It makes you take less damage from stuff and require less healing. Casters/healers do take physical hits harder than melee/ranged dps jobs, and DRGs take physical hits better than all dps and healers. That being said, yes there is a lot of damage that you are expected to avoid. All the content ages and defense is most needed/noticeable when collecting new/better gear and taking on brand new content. There is also a variety of content besides primals/raid bosses including things like dungeon trash, potd, and soloing in the open world. Seriuously try soloing potd as a blm. You get to s point where your squishiness and interruptability become a serious issue. As you level up physick stays the same, effectively becoming weaker compared to your increasing hp. And things start being immune your main method of controlling them outside of pomander use. Its not impossible but it realy gets dicey. No tank pet or big heals for blm. I'd hate it if rdm had similar issues. Because I never think of rdm being particularly squishy or lacking in survival spells.

Casters spread out to reduce how much they have to move. Targeted AoEs are more likely to hit someone or require moving to dodge if people are grouped up. BLM Ley Lines is a great example. 30/90s this ground buff is up and the BLM doesn't want to move and doesn't want anyone near him drawing fire to his vicinity. Even in general he doesn't want to sidestep/slide/manaward-manawall because an AoE targeted the guy standing next to him if he doesn't have to. He doesn't want to be far out of healing range either of course.

Depending on RDM's rotation... if driven into melee range frequently, with small animation locks/delay in position update involved, Caster defense ratings are a liability. And while strategic timing and defensive buffing can mitigate this mostly, its probably still a better idea to make RDM armor more protective than what healers and casters wear, and set his hp more like melee/ranged dps. I see it like DRG lacking Mdef in early 2.x. Low Pdef isn't as bad a vulnerability as Mdef (unavoidable AoEs), but its still a vulnerability, and one that RDM hasn't had to put up with in the past due to decently good armor options being part of its core concept. While XIV RDM can't have everything it has had in past games, medium armors are something that is easily keepable for a dps job in FFXIV.

There are also natural aesthetic and glamor benefits, and potential to make use of different stats or stat combinations than existing sets. DRG has heavier armor than other dps and is a slow melee, MNK and NIN could easily share an Eastern look but they use different main stats(because rogue/scouting job), NIN could have shared with MCN/BRD but doesn't for aesthetic reasons. Defense, stats, and look are all factors that determined how the melee dps jobs have their own left side gear. Does RDM want speed as much as a BLM does, or will he bitch about it like SMN? Does RDM need to look the same as BLM/SMN, all robed-up? Can't glamor Ultima Horns on one job and RDM JSE hat on the other when they use the same piece of gear.

RDM could use Caster gear. People would manage. SMNs, BLMs, and Healers can survive behind a boss when its called for. Low Pdef could be tolerable, but its not the only factor.

The reason to share armor is so that random gear drops don't have +1 set in the mix of possible loot and so that gearing multiple jobs with time-gated tomestones is a little easier. I don't think SE cares about that. As far as work involved for the dev team in making gear, they would probably palette swap, recycle, or make tiny modifications to other sets like they do already to shortcut it. Aside from the initial JSE round, its not a whole lot more work. I rather think they're mixing and matching parts from a lot of gear models these days, and doing more tweaking than creating.

I would love to get one set for my RDM and BLM. So convenient! But I'd rather get a different left side for them if it means glamor independence, optimizing different substats, and RDM being tougher (esp when i'm getting stuff done solo). SE can find ways to handle gear drops a little differently if the number of items in the loot pool keeps going up. Tomestones already can only be spread so far in a given patch cycle. Adding another set won't make a significant difference; tomestones are already inadequate for gearing multiple jobs.

Reasons for Caster:
1) loot pool size & gear purchase convenience
2) less work making gear

Reasons against:
1) Pdef
2) style/look is too magey
3) stat choice/materia the same for all Casters
4) glamor flexibility, and since this involves the pimp hat, it trumps all other reasoning

[ErryK]

Everyone here is acting like they just never take any damage at all haha, I,ve never had a run as a dps where I took zero damage at all why else would healers have aoe heals.

That's such a stupid thing to say...

Nobody is acting as if they don't take any damage at all. They shouldn't be taking cleaves or autoattacks which are the number 1 killers of melee players. That is not a fault of the melee player, it's a fault of the tank not being good at his job. So the matter of RDM needing more HP than BLM/SMN, is a bit foreign due to the fact that they will be in melee range for like 2 seconds, then back at range.

If they really needed the extra HP, they have VIT melds to help them survive hits... ranged DPS and Healers and even melee DPS already do this...

[enthauptet]

Like 95% of the AOEs in the game right now are magic anyway so casters are actually less squishy...? If you are getting cleaved by the boss you're gonna die anyway.

[JunseiKei]

Comparing of HP pools and defense, I'm suddenly recalling something in 2.0:
I remember when a level 50 botanist had more MDEF than a dragoon. Good times.

RDM will be fine in melee range as a caster, as others have said. Just don't stand in bad places.

[Colino]

It's a tough one but ultimately I think the dev team will come to the decision all together to tackle this almost unsurmountable obstacle by doing what they already did several times already.

[SendohJin]

Defense matters...

All the content ages and defense is most needed/noticeable when collecting new/better gear and taking on brand new content. There is also a variety of content besides primals/raid bosses including things like dungeon trash, potd, and soloing in the open world...

and RDM being tougher (esp when solo).

what are the strongest solo jobs in the game? in the open world and in PotD? it's all the jobs that can heal.

defense matters but if you're not getting one-shotted recovery matters a lot more.

and defense doesn't have to come from equipment you can get defense from magic.

[Fluffernuff]

All melee are regularly under attack and take as many hits as the tank, so therefore every melee-capable job has as much defense as tanks. Right?

Range =/= defense. Range =/= safety. The mechanics of this game and common boss abilities don't care where you are. they are targetted and visible.

The only potential issue RDM might actually have would be are animation locks from dashing around. You don't need a higher defense rating to account for that. It's not like BLM always die from getting hit from an AoE. things like manawall exist


...Seriously, guys. There are ways to mitigate damage, and it's not based on gear or role. How about we wait and see what RDM has access to before we analyze how squishy they are?

[LineageRazor]

I don't think there are any mobs in the game that have instant attacks that hit everyone in melee range. While many mobs DO have attacks that affect everyone in melee range, those attacks always have a cast bar, giving folks time to move out. (There is, admittedly, one kind-of exception I can think of - the Piestes in Brayflox Normal have a sped-up cast bar for their ground stomp that makes it effectively unavoidable - but it is also not a lot of damage.) So, a RDM jumping into melee range is in no more danger of being hit than they are standing at range... unless there's a significant animation lock.

That's the thing that worries me the most. The dash in, slash, dash out we saw in the video was cool, and very appropriate for a fencer-type fighter, but I'm worried that it'll lock players down even longer than DRG's jumps do.

On the topic of where casters should stand, they should stand as close to the group as mechanics allow. If the boss uses player-targeted aoes, don't stand too close to other players, but DO stand as close as you can without being too close. If the boss uses melee-range aoes, stand out of melee range, but as close to the group as you can while still being out of melee range. BLMs want to minimize movement as much as possible so they can cast continuously, but they also want to be sure they're standing close enough to take advantage of the healers' aoe cures. In many fights - maybe even MOST fights, if the healer is healing anyone but the tank, they're doing it with aoe heals because many people were hit at once. Be sure you're in range of those aoe heals! Don't expect the healer to have time to do their aoe heals and then hit you with a couple of single-target heals before the next unavoidable aoe hits. That kind of thinking will get you dead, and there's not a lot the healer can do about it short of sacrificing the rest of the group to keep you alive.