Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

[Zigabar]

Is that not because they are designed more with the MSQ gear in mind rather than the gear that end-game players acquire from raiding? Aren't the level 60, non leveling dungeons are kind of there as a challenge for players who don't raid? As such, their balance is therefore based on the gear that players who do not raid will have access too. End-gamers with raid gear will overgear such content.

As someone who has not touched Alex Savage raids, the 60 dungeons are still laughably easy in Tomestone gear.

[Miste]

awesome quote of awesomness

I like you.

Agreed and very good read. I hadn't seen the topic that you originally posted it in. People really shouldn't let people die to prove a point like you mentioned.

I'm not going to waste my swiftcast on a spell that doesn't take very long to cast. It should be saved for raises, in the event that a party member dies.

In a dungeon I really wouldn't worry about using Swiftcast on protect at the beginning. One minute cooldown is really short. It'll be up again to use before the tank finishes pulling the first set probably.

[DamianFatale]

I like you.
In a dungeon I really wouldn't worry about using Swiftcast on protect at the beginning. One minute cooldown is really short. It'll be up again to use before the tank finishes pulling the first set probably.

Why are people encouraging poor manners? This shouldn't be a thing.

[dragonseth07]

Why are people encouraging poor manners? This shouldn't be a thing.

They're not encouraging poor manners. They're discussing how to properly deal with your tank exhibiting poor manners.

[Eloah]

Once a new dungeon has been out for a bit, I'd say the pulls become commonplace. So much so, that when a tank does smaller pulls I get confused. I do hope the formula changes in 4.0 though, more dynamic dungeons are a must.

[Miste]

Why are people encouraging poor manners? This shouldn't be a thing.

Where did I say I was encouraging poor manners? All I did was respond to your concern that Swiftcast is needed for raises and such.

Using swiftcast is one solution to the problem where people run away too fast; you said you don't want to use it to save for more important casts, but fact is the cooldown is very short so you can use it at beginning just fine.

Another solution is to ask people not to do that; not everyone realizes it messes up the healer especially if they've never played healer. So you could try to tell them this.

At least think about what I responded to before making random claims I said something that I did not even remotely say. I was only responding to your concern about swiftcast cooldown not about people running away before buffs.

Why do you even post comments if you going to answer like this to someone trying to offer you some insight.

They're not encouraging poor manners. They're discussing how to properly deal with your tank exhibiting poor manners.

Exactly this yeah, he explained it well ^

[Thayos]

The problem comes when people get overeager and don't let the pull finish. Remember that, in the middle of a big pull, we're not gonna stand in place waiting for another GCD, it's AoE on the run. So, if you start laying out heals on me before I have them all grouped up and can ACTUALLY establish aggro, you're gonna have a bad time. Trust in me to survive until I can get them all grouped up. My whole toolkit is about survival.

This should pretty much end the discussion.

I mass pull and don't ask because... why? The vast majority of parties can handle mass pulling with ease.

Honestly, the real question should be, "Why don't tanks ask if it's OK for them to do small pulls?" Because that's the outlier situation that people either want small pulls or can't handle the big ones.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

What you guys are saying is true for a lot of people, but that mostly has to do with the fact that there are quite a few people who are pretty much overgeared for the content (even the content that’s being released on Patch day). Because of this, all of the level 60 dungeons feel extremely easy. But, this doesn’t necessarily have to be same for all of the players. People who haven’t played the game for quite a while are still in the process of gearing their classes/jobs. They won’t be as overgeared for the content as we are.

One of the reasons that Aurum Vale is still considered to be one of the hardest dungeons in the game so far, has to do with the fact that you’re synced down to level 49. Some of the more vital skills are locked behind level 50, so you won’t have access to those.

So, in light of that, try running dungeons with the “Minimal iLvl”-option active. You’ll experience the content for the item level it was “designed” for. This will have a pretty big effect on how fast you’ll be killing monsters and the damage they deal to you. Burning down bosses, skipping phases and ignoring mechanics should prove to be a bit of a challenge at least.

Think back to a time where you were running Amdapor Keep and Wanderer’s Palace with your iLvl50-ish AF gear. Those were fun times, right? Now, why not give that “Minimal iLvl”-option a go with the level 60 dungeons and see if you can get that same feeling back.

At least, i’m planning on doing that with a couple of my friends. Just for the fun of it.

This isn't a good excuse anymore. I'll be frank in saying Expert dungeons shouldn't be accessible to literally everyone. It offers no incentive whatsoever to actually upgrade your gear when the stuff at Heavensward's release is the current ilvl. Inexperienced or poorly geared players should be funneled into leveling and older content which they might benefit whereas Expert should be focusing on the veteran player. A primary reason people have no idea what they're doing is this game does a horrible job at teaching. The same lack of incentive mentioned above applies to abilities as well. Plenty of people don't even realize they're doing low damage because the devs frown on any form of parsing. Simply put, Xelphatol and Gubal Hard should be in the 230-240 ranges imo. That basically pushes people to upgrade into at least lore gear. Yes, I know one is story but I feel they should either push a little harder at this point or unshackle dungeons from the story. Content we're expected to run for nearly four months shouldn't be something I don't even need cooldowns for as a tank or stand 90% of it in Cleric Stance as a healer.

And before anyone mentions it. No, this doesn't mean I or anyone else want Savage equivalent dungeons. I won't speak for anyone else, but I want to actually need my job specific abilities. If I'm tanking, I should be using cooldowns. If I'm healing I should be healing at least a good portion of the dungeon. I shouldn't have to pull the entire room just to have any semblance of a challenge-- a term even then remains loosely defined. Weeping City and higher levels of PotD are good examples of reasonable difficulty. It's been seven months or so and Weeping has held up almost the entire time. I'd love if dungeons had even half that longevity.

[RuleofThree]

As a tank, I always pull big. In this day and age it is to the point where it is better to assume the group is capable than the other way around, because 9 times out of 10, the group is capable. I don't want to sit there, hold everyone hand, have a peaceful pow-wow, burn some incense, and ask for permission to pull big...only to hear the party say 'Yes, get the fuck on with it mate.' If I am wrong, and the party can't take big pulls? My bad, now I know, let's start again, with smaller pulls. This is the same reason I don't tag every single mob with a '1, 2, 3, and 4' to goad them in to attacking enemies in order. I'm not here to hold you hand, people...my job is to hold hate, and take the damage. Not set up a three-point plan on how to engage combat, and who to attack.

As a healer, I expect the tank to crash out of the starting line like a sprinter on crack. this is why I don't even bother casting Stoneskin II. If the party wanted it..they'd stay. If they don't care...they are off to the races. No skin off my back. Sure..I can Swiftcast Stoneskin II...but why expend my resources for someone else's impatience? They don't want Stoneskin II...that's fine...let's move on. This is the same reason I don't cure the black mage that sticks like glue to his Laylanes, no matter what enemy attack marker is underneath him. I don't cure stupid. You want to stay in your laylines come hell or high water so you can get that 'mad deeps yo'? Then expect to die because of it...I'm not wasting my resources on your dumb ass.

Edit: Correction. I do cast Stoneskin II...but I don't swiftcast it. If they are out of range to benefit, their bad. Those who stay for those 3.5 precious seconds reap the benefits.

[ErryK]

Remember when you assume everyone acts the same, talks the same, has the exact same mannerisms? No? I do.


Don't assume, OP.