Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

[Taika]

I'm just kind of sad from all what I read on the forum about the current healing meta because it seems it has taken a more important turn toward DPSing. While I remember before I quitted than when doing big pulls, or with some bosses (who, I clearly noticed, have been nerfed since) the tank always flirted with death and there was no time at all for dps to the exception of special encounters where some well placed Holy could do wonder.

You're creating your own memories. DPS has always been a part of healer meta in this game: healers did DPS from Sastasha through the whole Coil. Holy burn was an essential part of speed running Wanderer's Palace. Even in 1.0 healers were doing DPS in dungeons and boss fights (WHM Moogle burn was a thing, for example).

[Chocolys]

Your creating your own memories. DPS has always been a part of healer meta in this game: healers did DPS from Sastasha through the whole Coil. Holy burn was an essential part of speed running Wanderer's Palace. Even in 1.0 healers were doing DPS in dungeons and boss fights (WHM Moogle burn was a thing, for example).

I never said I was not doing any DPS. And Wanderer palace was exactly the kind on special encounters I mentioned, where I was using Holy.

What I said was that during big pulls, I had not lot of time to DPS. And the overally I did not spend more time in Cleric Stance, than time healing.

For example when Brayflox HM was just released (I quitted the game shortly after that), and we were doing big pull in it, I had no time be half healing, half DPSing, because I was using about every healing skill without any pause to keep the tank alive. With luck I could place few Holies once the herd was thinned enough and the tank could substain the lesser incoming damage. (Or earlier if there was really good DPS.)

And during boss fights in various random matched group duties (which is what this thread is about since the issue is about "asking for big pull" which you should already know if you're in a premade group), I had a lot of healing to do, for example the simple AK wall boss (before it was nerfed), with pug standing sometimes in purple aoe and then the 2 bees, so lot of esunas and heals. Most of my time was not spent in cleric stance.

I remember doing lot of heals even in a "simple dungeons" like Castrum simply because otherwise just by the time he would take me to go into cleric stance and casting some attack, one the pug would have been standing at a bad place and died instantly if I did not keep him at 100% in the first place. (and it was not unusual for the second healer to just be DPS happy without caring about the rest of the party xD)

From what I read on the forum, it seems healer now spent more time in Cleric stance than not and I even hear people saying some Tank can survive without heals in some dungeons. So that has clearly changed because before I quitted I don't know any dungeon where the tank could pull stuff and survive without any kind of healer.

Also when I read a SCH can remain in CS and just let his fairy do the healing, my heart ache. If it has reached such point, let s just remove the Healing class, and give a fairy to the tank. xD

[Taika]

From what I read on the forum, it seems healer now spent more time in Cleric stance than not and I even hear people saying some Tank can survive without heals in some dungeons. So that has clearly changed because before I quitted I don't know any dungeon where the tank could pull stuff and survive without any kind of healer.

It's true the dungeons are now easier than they were in 2.0, but even back then healers were expected to be DPSing as much as they are now. I remember I was expected to Holy in Brayflox, which you used as an example, and use Benediction to heal the tank as planned between the Holys (and Scholars were able to Lustrate in Cleric Stance in 2.0). It's in no way a new thing, these days it's just much easier for healers to DPS.

[Chocolys]

It's true the dungeons are now easier than they were in 2.0, but even back then healers were expected to be DPSing as much as they are now. I remember I was expected to Holy in Brayflox, which you used as an example, and use Benediction to heal the tank as planned between the Holys (and Scholars were able to Lustrate in Cleric Stance in 2.0). It's in no way a new thing, these days it's just much easier for healers to DPS.

Oh I did use benediction often but I did not really have the opportunity to plan for when. So maybe you have luck with being random matched with excellent tanks, but most of my runs as soon as tank had finished gathering the giant group of monsters, it would take almost less time to his HP to reach zero than the animation time of Holy xD.
Basically most of the times when the tanks stopped running and starting getting hit, If I had not both Divine Seal + Presence of Mind on me, Regen on the tank and me spamming Cure I and Cure II (sometimes even just cure II because cure I would not cut it) then the tanks would be dead. Any distraction from me for a second or two, and they would be dead. And to make it even more fun, sometimes I had to use Medicas because of DPS somehow getting dangerously low, or to get more regen power).

But that's how I like healer class, I want healing to be a fight in itself. For me if I have enough time to do DPS, that means something is wrong and the monsters do not hit hard/debuff enough. Said otherwise, DPS have DPS check, I want healer to have Heal Check where no time can be afforded to go DPSing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Experts have become so easy, you have to be asleep to not handle big pulls. The sole exception can be the last stretch of mobs before the Owl boss in GGH. More than a few healers or tanks aren't ready for the amount of damage, though it's less of an issue nowadays. I wish dungeons actually required me to work towards big pulls. Sadly, we haven't seem even remotely hard dungeons since The Avery and Vault. It's pretty sad leveling content is harder than the supposedly experts. Admittedly, I won't do small pulls in Xelphatol. Call me an elitist but it would actually take less time if I left it and ate the penalty. That is how absurdly easy it is.

So basically, every fight is like a primal that takes a while to beat. Yeah no.

A simple middle ground would be PotD's harder floors. Those trash mobs deal upwards of 5,000-7,000 damage when tanks barely get above 20k. If you even think about pulling the entire room, they'll murder you in seconds. If you design the mobs to be like glass cannons, it keeps things interesting without needlessly bogging down the run. Add some varying elements like patrols, mobs DPS need to single target ASAP, the possibility they can break away from the aggro table and you have dungeons that might actually be a bit memorable.

Simply put, I should have to actually use my tank cooldowns.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I remember when endgame dungeons were actually hard enough to care what you pull.

[Jetstream_Fox]

This used to be a thing, but now I don't see it anymore. How come?

Should I as a DPS ask to use group AoE damage? Probably not. A Tank really doesn't need to ask whether or not they should full pull, as aggro gain is their only job. A healer also shouldn't need to ask before AoE healing. These are extreme basics of the game that is taught via Hall of the Novice, now if a healer can't heal through or a tank isn't geared to allow pulls then that is a different discussion.

[mosaicex]

Just a byproduct of 'expert' dungeons continuously amounting to nothing more other than 3-4 trashes pack and then bosses, repeated ad nauseum.

[Riardon]

Because dungeons are nerfed down to stupidity mode. Looks at "Expert" roulette we have now. 1st day on 1st try huge pulls and mobs died in few secs. They have too low HP. This kind of easiness is boring. Dungeons used to be fun and challenging back in 2.X series. Now they are made for toddlers. I remember we wanted to get the new shiny tomestone gear to run the new dungeons more efficiently. Now we want the new tomestone gear for the skin and looks.

[Hayward]

Because dungeons are nerfed down to stupidity mode. Looks at "Expert" roulette we have now. 1st day on 1st try huge pulls and mobs died in few secs. They have too low HP. This kind of easiness is boring. Dungeons used to be fun and challenging back in 2.X series. Now they are made for toddlers. I remember we wanted to get the new shiny tomestone gear to run the new dungeons more efficiently. Now we want the new tomestone gear for the skin and looks.

I'd better not see any of you hardcore posers jump ship from any of these dungeons you want to impose on other players. Just sayin'.