[dev1206] Class Reforms: why the 15/11 limit?

[Betelgeuzah]

Look at the song list: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard

How many of them are actually used in gameplay, especially at endgame?

Why have all that filler in there taking space and being generally useless? If you can't answer that question, they need to be removed.

[PrettyPrincess]

Look at the song list: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard

How many of them are actually used in gameplay, especially at endgame?

Why have all that filler in there taking space and being generally useless? If you can't answer that question, they need to be removed.

omg Betel stop making me agree with you WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!? D:

[Monsalvato]

How many of them are actually used in gameplay, especially at endgame?

Why have all that filler in there taking space and being generally useless? If you can't answer that question, they need to be removed.

You can't make a straight comparison, first you'd need a comparison.
1.20 FFXIV uses a "scaling actions" system, FFXI uses a "tiered actions" system. Also, FFXIV is a "new game" with a low level cap while FFXI is on its last days and its last level cap, so it's pretty understandable for the second to have "more things" than the first.
Second thing you may need to consider is game balance. FFXI nowadays is pretty unbalanced because many things in the game mechanics changed too quickly and unexpectedly. There are songs which are "useless" nowadays, but they certainly weren't back @75 where the game was overall, in my opinion, more balanced.
Still, after these two necessary premises, BRD in FFXI has:

1. 11 very unuseful songs. Basically the ones offering protection against certain debuffs plus Virelai and Minne. Some of these may situationally get an use, but... not really. Even at 75 you rarely used them. I added Hymnus to this list as well because nowadays you really get RR stuff from everywhere and lolxp anyway. Even at 75 it wasn't that great tbh but I wouldn't have labelled it as completely useless back then.
2. 4 (+8?) situational songs - Either you don't use them much more at the current level, or you do but in specific situations. Madrigal, Paeon, Prelude, Mambo. You don't really need accuracy/rangedaccuracy very often these days, just like the regen from Paeon. Mambo too, you wouldn't use it in a 18 people LS event, but it can still be useful when lowmanning things, especially with a NIN or a THF tank. The +8 in brackets are Carol spells. They're very useful imho but you only use it on certain fights. That's not necessarily a bad things, it's good to have a set of actions you perform only in certain situations instead of using the same ones everywhere.
3. 10 (+8?) songs you use very often - March, Ballad, Minuet, Elegy, Nocturne, Lullaby, Finale, Mazurka, Scherzo, Requiem (uhm...) plus eventually the 8 threnodies.

To this list you still have Etudes (7 of them) to add, I don't really know where. Somewhere between group 1) and 2)? Maybe in group 2.
If we're talking about songs to "delete", I wouldn't mind I guess if they deleted songs from group 1, but I sure want to keep the ones from group 1 and from group 2. Leaving Etudes aside we're talking about 14 actions +16 (Threnodies and Carols) for a total fo 30 different spells.
Oh but Bard also has job abilities though, I wouldn't give up those either if you ask me

This opens up the discussion about "elements".
In other games it doesn't matter which element you use. Different classes use different elements to make themselves different from each other. In FFXI it's not this way, the element you use has a strategical impact on your fight. Each enemy has a weakness and a strenght to certain elements and you have to use them accordingly.
FFXIV so far has been the same.
So, from this point of view, the 6 elemental spells conjurer had, should have been considered a single action, same with the light/dark counterpart of THM.
When you allow classes to use only certain elements, it's only obvious that game developers will be forced to reduce the impact the different elements have on the game, so the next step will be to make it trivial to use a certain element instead of another (they couldn't really afford certain classes to feel "useless" because they can only use elements a certain enemy is strong against, no?) and that, to me, is a potential loss in game depth.

[Firon]

Look at the song list: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard

How many of them are actually used in gameplay, especially at endgame?

Why have all that filler in there taking space and being generally useless? If you can't answer that question, they need to be removed.

That is true on so many lvl's my brd was 75 on xi i had like 10 spells macro'ed lol

[OMEGA_HACK]

Look at the song list: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard

How many of them are actually used in gameplay, especially at endgame?

Why have all that filler in there taking space and being generally useless? If you can't answer that question, they need to be removed.

Save for the tiered songs each of the songs were widely used by good Bards in FFXI, maybe (assuming you played Bard) you just were not a good Bard and failed to see the use of those spells. I will agree that some might be more useful than others, however depending on the party setup a good Bard, again let me emphasize the -good- part here, would adapt and adjust the song buffs to best the party's strengths.

Also since they made the songs able to be cast on only one person that further diversified the use of different songs. The more you know.