Heaven's Ward Knights

[Alynn]

Was anyone else really sad to see Ser Adelphel, Janlenloux, Haumeric, Hermenost, and basically the "good" guys of the Heaven's Ward just dissipate after we kill Thordan? I mean Adelphel was my personal favorite because of his bachelor ways in his back story. Janlenloux was his best friend and he worked super hard. Haumeric and Hermenost, both really righteous. Some could argue that Zephirin was "good" too since he was just, loyal to his king, but Haurchefant.

Were the knights aware of what would happen once we struck down Thordan? I've always been told there's two sides to a story, and from Thordan's side, what they were doing seemed righteous. Charibert/his lapdog got what they deserved but Adelphel and Haumeric .

What are your thoughts?

[Enur]

I was under the impression that we slaughtered them all. Even if they did what they thought was thing to do, just remember, they were the enemies. And now, as proven by the Hildibrand questline of all places they are gone. Dead.

They might appear good in their backstories but they did evil things. They supported a maniac set on world domination. They deserved no less than the sweet embrace of death.

No man thinks they does evil. Everyone is good by their own perspective. The Heavens Ward is no exception.

[Cilia]

Well, considering it's heavily implied that the Heavens' Ward were all "blessed" (tempered) by Thordan, it does make most of them pretty tragic figures. While it's hard to empathize with the knights due to the fact all we have for their backstories are blurbs in the Lore Book, and some (Charibert and Grinnaux) were bad eggs to begin with, one can't help but feel bad for essentially killing them. Most if not all of the others were probably patriotic, noble knights... and then they were made into Thordan's mind-slaves because of their martial skill.

While killing is extreme and should always be a last resort, in light of the fact they were all tempered it could easily be seen as a form of mercy. Sometimes being a hero means doing things nobody wants to do...

[Alynn]

snip.

Hi Proud!! I somewhat agree with you, but what if they didn't know the full extent of what Thordan was doing? Maybe I'm just being sentimental, but I honestly felt like Hermenost was cheated. He was a deeply religious man, and I don't think anyone can argue that what Thordan was doing was against the teachings of Halone.

[Belhi]

Yeah, Thordan picked them on their skills rather than their personalities because he knew they would fall in line and be loyal once they had been 'blessed'. That is always the tragedy of the tempered. Even a good man is lost if they become enthralled by a primal. As of yet we have no way to 'cure' tempering. Death is the only option we have.

[Theodric]

I feel like instead of working alongside Artoriel and his brother in the early days of arriving in Ishgard we should have bonded with one or two of the more reasonable members of the Heaven's Ward. Instead we only really see Charibert and Zephirin - and what we see of them isn't exactly flattering and gives the false impression that they're all rotten apples.

I do like that they had distinct personalities and didn't necessarily like each other - I want to see more of that moving forward, especially in regards to Garlemald. We just need to see it in-game rather than hidden away in sources most players will not easily see.

[Enur]

Indeed, The devs should have made it so that the "blessing" of the Heavensward should have been postponed to the Vault, where we in a shocking turn of events would have learned of it. We should have entered with Adelphel (or really any of the less evil members), whom we in the early lvls, 51-54 would became "friends" with. Only for him to stop at the first round, flat opening and talk briefly about his newly recieved blessing from the archbishop. And the proceed to attempt to kill us.

But sadly all what could have been was relegated to "WE B BADD GUYSS, WE DO BAD STUFSS. FITE US."

Ah if only... Perhaps i'd actually sympathise with the members if we had had but one friend among them to show that they arent all baddies at heart.

[Atoli]

What's the point in sympathizing with them, though?
Haurchefant was enough tragic death for an entire expansion, I just don't see the need for even more "characters we like" dying. It makes sense for them to "just" be bad guys to most players, that they don't have to feel guilty or sad about killing.

[Theodric]

What's the point in sympathizing with them, though?
Haurchefant was enough tragic death for an entire expansion, I just don't see the need for even more "characters we like" dying. It makes sense for them to "just" be bad guys to most players, that they don't have to feel guilty or sad about killing.

...because a story that isn't black and white is much more interesting than one where only the protagonists are valued? Final Fantasy games have almost always taken the approach of fleshing out the antagonists just as much as the protagonists, if not more so in some cases. There's also plenty of people who don't really care all that much for the likes of Haurchefant or the Scions in general and prefer rooting for or sympathising with the antagonists for various reasons.

Ishgard wasn't exactly innocent when it came to questionable acts but at the same time much of those questionable acts were a direct consequence of the nation being forced to suffer Nidhogg's misguided rage for a thousand years. By fleshing out the various members of the Heaven's Ward more the message would have been made more clear.

3.0 was an improvement over 2.0 in terms of storytelling, though, so I suspect - and hope - that lessons have been learned for 4.0 and such things will be considered moving forward.

[Enur]

To be honest, Haurchefaunts demise wasnt really that big of a deal for me. Ill admit i didnt see it coming but when it happened i didnt really care all that much. It all felt a bit too.. idk. Scripted? Like he was just pulled into HW just to be killed of at some point without actually having any other reason than dying?

I was enjoying his character up until his death, which at that point i was like: Oh, he's just been around to be killed off.

If the devs intention wasnt to make us sympathise with the heavens ward, why then give then noble backgrounds? If we had had that betrayal at the start of the vault, only to end with a tragedy i do feel it would have hurt more. Or at least it might have made me feel anything.