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  1. #351
    Player
    StarRosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    566
    Character
    Sakya Malha
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Snipper Riffle
    I will give you that this game does not take time to explain the job system that well, it very much relies on if you've played a FF game that had the traditional job system. But the issue here is two sets of mechanics and lore clashing against each other. The job system was built in a way that you have a character specialize in some stuff and you can totally have some jobs borrow skills from other jobs, such as if you have a Knight who was once a Black Mage, that Knight can use some Black Mage spells but not any of the BIG spells.

    The issue is, this system was not built back then to factor in something like the Glam system. Cause why would they? What purpose in say FFV is there for the Knight to make himself look like a Black Mage? It just creates confusion. There is also the fact that it would strip away the visual identity of some jobs and make them feel more generic (WAR's job gear really does give it it's identity, even if the armors they choose don't really scream Warrior in a traditional sense.) That's another mess by the way, the confusion allowing job gear to be glamoured would create, is just too spooky to think about. Trolls would have a HAYDAY with that kind of freedom.
    (3)

  2. #352
    Player
    Miste's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,720
    Character
    Miste Vaer
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Its not that I refuse to see , its just to small of an issue for me to tell someone that they cant do something
    It is a small issue for....you. You refuse to acknowledge that others might see it as a bigger issue...so unfortunately you just proved what I said to be kind of true :/ You often say things like "it doesn't take anything away from you" even if people just explained why it does. Usually when people debate, a point is made by one side and the other side counters the point...not just pretends the point doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    I just cant get behind bringing lore from other games into this argument
    Since what we have been talking about is gear designed based on traditional FF series lore it is part of the argument whether you accept it or not. So there isn't much else to say about that. You are just doing the same thing as I explained above. You won't accept the point and then counter it to your favour you just want to remove the argument since you think it shouldn't be there. That isn't how you debate unless someone says something that has nothing to do with the topic. Which is not the case here at all.

    I understand your point that the game doesn't tell people about the lore enough. I wish it did also. They just figure long time fans know the job gear tradition already and most of us do who have played the other titles. So just because the game doesn't say so doesn't mean it doesn't make sense since even if you haven't played the other games myself and others have shown you how the lore makes sense for the job locked gear many times in this thread. Again you don't have to accept our reasons, but we gave you a lot of factual evidence that definitely should have made it make sense to you by now.
    (6)
    Last edited by Miste; 01-03-2017 at 11:21 AM.

  3. #353
    Player
    Anyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ganymede
    Posts
    152
    Character
    Zundar Sunstriker
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Miste View Post
    Well if you think you know me better than I know myself... wait no you don't...so again no I don't care what you desire to do; your desires are your own.
    I just... I'm baffled.
    I used myself just as an example. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept. Oops, sorry! You'll probably take that as me claiming to know you more than you know yourself. *silent prayer that you'll get the joke and that even you might lighten up a bit*
    Ok, here we go... you don't want for example an astro being able to glamour smn gear on themselves, correct? (psssst notice the word example, it's important in this context) You, and others, want to keep the iconic gear (that only a few classes even have) and the traditions etc, correct? That's what the whole argument is about isn't it? One side wants to glamour freely using all gear there is no matter what class/job. The other side (the one you belong to) want to keep some restrictions intact as they are now, right? I wasn't making any claims but merely asking questions.

    Look, no kidding around, I get it. I didn't want to argue really, I mostly wanted to understand. It's quite obvious that some of you take this really seriously and would get legit upset if these "traditions" were somehow ruined for you. There are some things I'm really passionate about too so I've experienced similar feelings over things like this but jfc you guys, chill! Some of you are behaving like Final Fantasy is some kind of religion. It's rather disturbing how angry y'all seem to get by the mere thought of a pally wearing a whm robe. Pixel clothes on a game character makes you behave like someone took a dump on your holy book.

    If I say anything else I'll just contribute to this pointless back and forth so I have to nope the hell out of here.

    The only thing I have left to say is, whenever someone asks for more options or freedom to customize their character they'll always have my support. Traditions are like rules to me, made to be broken.
    (4)
    Last edited by Anyan; 01-03-2017 at 02:21 PM. Reason: limiiiiiits

  4. #354
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    5,778
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Anyan View Post
    ...You, and others, want to keep the iconic gear (that only a few classes even have) and the traditions etc, correct? That's what the whole argument is about isn't it? One side wants to glamour freely using all gear there is no matter what class/job. The other side (the one you belong to) want to keep some restrictions intact as they are now, right? I wasn't making any claims but merely asking questions.
    Careful! Warrior, Paladin, Dark Knight, White Mage, Black Mage, Ninja, Dragoon, Summoner, and soon to be Red Mage all take on the iconic look of FF games past. Nine jobs is hardly any to scoff at, especially when three of those make up the tanks in FFXIV, one is a healer, and several others are sought after for their raid utility and DMG output.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anyan View Post
    Look, no kidding around, I get it. I didn't want to argue really, I mostly wanted to understand. It's quite obvious that some of you take this really seriously and would get legit upset if these "traditions" were somehow ruined for you. There are some things I'm really passionate about too so I've experienced similar feelings over things like this but jfc you guys, chill!
    If this is true, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anyan View Post
    Some of you are behaving like Final Fantasy is some kind of religion. It's rather disturbing how angry y'all seem to get by the mere thought of a pally wearing a whm robe. Pixel clothes on a game character makes you behave like someone took a dump on your holy book.

    If I say anything else I'll just contribute to this pointless back and forth so I have to nope the hell out of here.

    The only thing I have left to say is, whenever someone asks for more options or freedom to customize their character they'll always have my support. Traditions are like rules to me, made to be broken.
    ... edit all this sh*t the eff out of your post.
    (6)

  5. #355
    Player
    Zeonsilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    258
    Character
    Evan Lionheart
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    I wonder if they will release here a -Moogle Shop non-restricted level 50/etc- sets, like they did in China (or Korea?).
    Still....it's a kinda a cheap cashgrab, since you can just press 2 buttons and make those crafted items wear'able by any class.
    (2)

  6. #356
    Player
    Miste's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,720
    Character
    Miste Vaer
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Anyan View Post
    I just... I'm baffled.
    I used myself just as an example. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept. Oops, sorry! You'll probably take that as me claiming to know you more than you know yourself. *silent prayer that you'll get the joke and that even you might lighten up a bit*
    I need to lighten up just because I sarcastically corrected you? See, now you are assuming you know my whole state of mind through an internet post lol (Oops sorry! You'll probably take that as me being too serious *silent prayer that you'll get the sarcasm this time and stop assuming I need to lighten up)

    You just took it too seriously, not me, because you think I was being too serious when I wrote it. I wasn't lol. I found it funny actually because our convo basically went like this:

    "You care about how I design and dress my character"
    "No I don't care"
    "You must care because example"

    You tried to use yourself as an "example" to say that by your logic I must care even though I told you already I don't lol. So my answer to you was me explaining how pointless that is for you to do. Sarcasm works well sometimes.

    I mean if you wanna ignore what I say, sure do it, but we'll just go back and forth "you care" "I don't care" "you care" "I don't care". You claim to be "asking questions" but...I already answered your question where you said that I care about how others design their characters. You just made me have to answer it for a second time O.o. If you look back at your post you only asked one so-called question, one that I already answered the first time you asked why people care in a response to me.

    As for your questions in this post I can't speak for everyone here, but answering for myself I wish to keep the traditional FF series job gear intact. I care that unlocking it ruins the lore (pssst notice where I said "I care that unlocking it ruins the lore" it's important since it is not "I care about how you want to dress your character" )

    You were the cause of the pointless back and forth lol "you care" "I don't care" "you care" "I don't care" (it could have stopped at the second quote) and the stuff Gemina quoted last....jeez again you are assuming people are crazy angry just because they don't agree with the topic. Stop pretending you are omniscient.

    Also I can't believe you just compared FFXIV and religion; that is extremely rude and I am not even a very religious person myself.
    (3)
    Last edited by Miste; 01-04-2017 at 12:46 AM.

  7. #357
    Player
    JumperX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    503
    Character
    Sam West
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 36
    Why can't people accept what is logical in our reality instead of trying to force something that is not right. All this problem because glamour system was released in the game.
    (1)

  8. #358
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,918
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Miste View Post
    Made a mistake because I read what Gemina posted first and thought you did remove it. I already corrected it awhile back though. Wish you did remove it though; it really is rude.

    So I,m pretty much done with this thread as well people have stated their claims and their stand points, but I do have a question for you tho about the lore its off topic ,but not really cause I,ve mention it in the thread before but you kinda glossed over it or didn't see it.

    But I'm curious of your viewpoint, so as I stated before that this game does zero pretty much absolutely nothing to explain how your character harnesses the skills to master all forms of combat in the game. IF you go from examples of other games , I've never known a ninja that could transformed into a healer or caster on the same character even if it was two different classes it just doesnt happen in other games aside from maybe eso or something of the sort. I come from swtor before this game I couldn't image my jedi knight being able to become a tactical trooper, or a smuggler it would make no sense at all, also same with guild wars 2 I only had the option to pick one class when I played it, and it would make no sense at all to be able to change into a thief or whatever class on my mage on that game. So then I land here ff a franchise I loved growing up as a child I admit I knew nothing about a job type system really, so when I started leveling different jobs on the same character I just viewed them as one thing.


    What bothers me so much about this game and the reason why lore just to me is having a good story line, which this game does have a great one, is that from the very beginning why not explain in the lore how you have these amazing abilities. Why is the answer you are the warrior of light good enough for the player base , they could call you the defender of realm, and it have just as much meaning as that name, it explains nothing. It doesn't tie anything together , there is no npc reference to how are why you can just know all of this stuff and its like some hidden secret that you even do all of these jobs on your one character. Where is the lore on this where is the deep story on this, why does no one care that there isn't any when it comes to lore, is it just because you like this game play feature to not have to go back 13 times through the story to play each job is that it basically does it not need its own form of lore?


    So this is why I feel the way I do , if you are going to have a specific story tying to how great some piece of gear is, and the history behind that, then where is the story on how great our character is that they have the ability to know all forms of these amazing jobs on just your single created character. People have glossed over this while acknowledging it , so if players can gloss over something that is a major part of the game, how can someone that wants the lore or reason to why my character is the way they are but not get anything at all, then care are about something that is a small part of the game such as a tenth of the gear in the game. Not trolling but you seem to be pretty informed on the game so I honestly would like your reply on this because it really bothers me, but everything else is so great that I still love the game.
    (2)

  9. #359
    Player
    Lilseph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,461
    Character
    Shadow Link
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Snip
    Soul Crystals: Upon the surface of this multi-aspected crystal are carved the myriad deeds of (Job) from eras past. People tried to figure their meaning out: here
    (3)

  10. #360
    Player
    Miste's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,720
    Character
    Miste Vaer
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    snip
    Well I have been playing since 1.0 so I know quite a bit about the game, but most of your questions could only be really answered 100% by the people who made the game; not me unfortunately.

    I can give you some ideas about why our character can do what they do though if it helps you out. Sorry if it isn't very helpful; you asked a mouthful xD and again this is just some interpretations. Only the dev/lore team could 100% answer what you are asking.

    Our characters are blessed by Hydaelyn, the crystal of life/mother crystal. She basically uses us to dispel evil so extra power is kind of necessary. We also have the Echo which makes us immune to primal influence. In general to make a story like this the character you play usually is special in some way.

    It's the typical "Hero" story. Not that the story makes us out to be perfect; we make mistakes, people die, we cannot save everyone, but we are powerful nonetheless otherwise it wouldn't make sense for us to do the things we do. I mean if you compare it to real people...you can be more than one thing. You could be a master chef while also being a master architect. Most of us would have a hard time learning so much, but it is possible. So its not like it makes no sense that you could learn to shoot a bow as a Bard and also learn to swing a sword as a Paladin.

    Like Lilseph said our soul crystals kind of explain what they are. They hold the memories of people who were those jobs since eras past. So it holds knowledge about the job and abilities. If you notice when you learn an ability from a quest the knowledge is absorbed by the soul crystal in the cutscene just after....so you could argue that we the characters ourselves aren't the ones learning the abilities/spells. The soul crystal is and we equip it to harness the knowledge of that job.

    There are other characters (NPCs) in the game who know knowledge of more than one job. They probably wanted the player character to be apart of the minority of stronger warriors.

    There is also the fact that SE might have just wanted to have characters to be able to be all jobs because its different than the norm of other MMOs. It sticks out as something unique to the FF MMOs (FFXI and FFXIV)

    Anyway I hoped I helped a little at least. Tried my best to explain reasons why some things are the way they are.

    It is a bit off topic though. You could of course argue that well there is nothing that says my BLM cannot equip the WHM gear (besides the labeling on the gear), but it isn't really more of a in-game lore thing. Just more of a tradition since 1987 thing. Like its just a natural part of the FF image since many games have references to how jobs dress.
    (9)
    Last edited by Miste; 01-04-2017 at 03:53 AM.

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