Removal of the cross class system announced.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually, I think the change will be bigger than that. Yoshi-P mentionned, as an "example", that it's useless to have severals tanks having a "-20% damage taken/1m30 CD/20s duration" skill.
So, maybe Rampart and Shadowskin will be removed from PLD and DRK skilltrees and put into the Tank skills. It opens up a new slot for PLD and DRK, but can also make Rampart available for WAR, who will need to be adjusted accordingly.

Even where two skills are clones of each other—and I'm not saying that's okay—I'd much rather have Shadowskin on my edgy DRK job than Rampart, and would rather not have it on my Paladin, merely in terms of name and appearance. Moreover, moving it to a broad "tank" skill does nothing for customization or button-bloat. It'd still be a required choice; you'd just no longer have aesthetic fitting for your particular job, nor the ability to increase or decrease its strength in order to better shape its proportionate value against your other job skills and would remove yet another axis of balancing, in turn forcing those other job skills to be even more like one another. That is not a good kind of "simplification".

Technically, they could decide to make a universal enmity combo too, and balance the potency gap between job-restricted skills.

Making a universal enmity combo does not save space. It replaces three more unique slots with 3 absolutely homogenized ones that force the remaining skills to then also be more homogenized. It tears apart each tank's previous rotational priorities, where they previously all varied immensely. I don't understand why you would think that would be, in any way, a good thing.

As a sidenote, what it could bring in the end is the total removal of classes, and thus, potentially removing the weapon restriction.
Think about it, if your job is determined by the Crystal you equip, why not allow a PLD to use a greatsword or a Ninja to use two sword with a real Dual Wield?

If something tends to remove, remove, remove, with seemingly no intent of adding something in its place... it usually adds nothing in its place.

And why would you want this? Why would you want a job with shield-dependent skills like Bulwark and Shelltron and "Shield" Lob and "Shield" Bash to take on a Greatsword? Do you really think SE would be willing to create new, fitting animations, let alone names or effects, for each of those modified skills, after they'd apparently just removed all variance among (near-) identical skills?

You have Flash, is that not good enough? That thing does a NUMBER on aggro. Besides, Overpower and Unleash would not be okay on a Paladin.

That'd mean that PLDs could DPS! And we all know that WAR is the only DPS Job classified as a tank.

There's probably a good reason Flash was never originally designed to be an AoE filler. Originally, Gladiator had physical AoEs, same as Marauder, and these remained, distinct, even after the removal of most cross-class skills in 1.18. (Flash was merely a ranged enmity nuke, cross-classable.)

Would it really be so wrong for Gladiator to take up a physical, TP-based AoE, such as Circle Slash or Brandish, whether be that be with some unique component?

[Tactical]

mmm I've got no qualms with the threat generated by Flash.

I think I'd be able to use the blinding effect of paladins flash more strategically If I wasn't making things immune at the start of a pull. Also I'd like to contribute more to aoe damage. Things get better at higher levels when I can tag everything with goring blade and circle of scorn, but until then I feel like I'd be contributing more if I had Overpower or Unleash in AOE situations.

People say that they should make flash into a damaging move but I like being able to flash sleeping or bound mobs without freeing them from the negative status.

Hum... a Flash that makes things less likely to dodge your attacks (so you don't miss Rage of Halone) would be nice, but yeah, Blinding enemies tends to be way less effective. (SE why you no remove vulnerability on this ;_

There's probably a good reason Flash was never originally designed to be an AoE filler. Originally, Gladiator had physical AoEs, same as Marauder, and these remained, distinct, even after the removal of most cross-class skills in 1.18. (Flash was merely a ranged enmity nuke, cross-classable.)

Would it really be so wrong for Gladiator to take up a physical, TP-based AoE, such as Circle Slash or Brandish, whether be that be with some unique component?

In my nonexistent defense, that last part was a bit of a shitpost, but yeah, Gladiator having something worthwhile, in terms of crowd control, would be nice.

Maybe for every target Flash hits, chance for Circle of Scorn's CD reduces by 10 seconds/ends CD? Nah, sounds pretty bust. But where my Rive @ from the Axe-wielding Training Partner

[Reynhart]

Even where two skills are clones of each other—and I'm not saying that's okay—I'd much rather have Shadowskin on my edgy DRK job than Rampart, and would rather not have it on my Paladin, merely in terms of name and appearance.

The name doesn't really matter in the end. As for the animation, you could have a different one depending on the job. Like doing Fracture with a Sword is different than with an Axe.

Moreover, moving it to a broad "tank" skill does nothing for customization or button-bloat. It'd still be a required choice;

Considering there's no real customization with the cross-class, it wouldn't worsen the situation. The most important part, for me, is that I don't think you'll have to chose the role skills. You'll just have all of them available. But keep in mind that if tank skills are always available, you can still have traits to modify them. Maybe WAR will have the basic "Rampart-like" but PLD and DRK will keep the improved version.

Making a universal enmity combo does not save space. It replaces three more unique slots with 3 absolutely homogenized ones that force the remaining skills to then also be more homogenized.

Stormblood will not reduce the number of skills we have at our disposal, anyway. They already said that moving skills to the role-pool will give room for more personal skills.

It tears apart each tank's previous rotational priorities, where they previously all varied immensely.

Level 70 will already change our rotation, it's not a big deal.

I don't understand why you would think that would be, in any way, a good thing.

IIRC, I never said this was "good". For me, not designing an expanded class/job system is where the system started declining.

But eh, it worked that way from the start "Ok we have a deep but flawed system, how do we fix it ? Adressing the flaw is boring, let's make the system as bland as possible, it can't come bite us in the future, right ?"

[Shurrikhan]

IIRC, I never said this was "good". For me, not designing an expanded class/job system is where the system started declining.

But eh, it worked that way from the start "Ok we have a deep but flawed, how do we fix it ? Adressing the flaw is boring, let's make the system as bland as possible, it can't come bite us in the future, right ?"

My apologies for mis-extrapolating there.

And yes, painfully true.

Stormblood will not reduce the number of skills we have at our disposal, anyway. They already said that moving skills to the role-pool will give room for more personal skills.

My only point here is that they said either that—and my memory isn't perfect here—that our total skill-count or the general skill requirements (skill floor and ceiling) would be the same in SB as in HW. And as long as these role skills are free, rather than having to sacrifice a native skill to be taken, then that movement has absolutely no effect on button-bloat. Whether you need to level Paladin to 22 for Provoke, or get it automatically, you still have it and 4 other obligatory "cross-class"/"role-based" skills on your bar in addition to all your native skills. There is zero effect on the total skill-count by just changing that label. You still have exactly 32 skills (+ whatever net addition, if any, comes with SB).

Level 70 will already change our rotation, it's not a big deal.

Better to still have some differences... Further homogenization, at this point, should be all the scarier, not just inundating to the point of apathy.

[Ekimmak]

You know, they might give the cross-class for tanks some sort of shield cooldown based off current health, just to make up for losing stoneskin. And make it viable for tanks, as opposed to a paladin's gimmick.

Maybe not even make it a cooldown, just a specific amount of MP taken away. That could get OP.

[DadFynal]

Woah, ok...can someone give me a yes or no? Does this mean I can stop thinking about leveling classes I don't really want to play for cross class skills? I am a new player and want to get through 3.0 asap in prep for SB, but feel pressure to go down the rabbit trail of picking up cross class skills I need; like quelling strikes lvl 34 archer :/. Can anyone confirm I can just play w/ and forget that for now?

[programcanaan]

Woah, ok...can someone give me a yes or no? Does this mean I can stop thinking about leveling classes I don't really want to play for cross class skills? I am a new player and want to get through 3.0 asap in prep for SB, but feel pressure to go down the rabbit trail of picking up cross class skills I need; like quelling strikes lvl 34 archer :/. Can anyone confirm I can just play w/ and forget that for now?

You can do whatever you want. Though it is pretty safe to say crossclasses are going bye bye.

But dabbling in some other playstyles never hurt anyone.

Only so many additional skills are very preferential Swiftcast, Awareness, Raging Strikes. While others are very optional like Stoneskin, Eye for an Eye, Quelling Strikes, Blood for Blood.

And still at the end of the day it's still your choice whether to get those or not.

[ADVSS]

Woah, ok...can someone give me a yes or no? Does this mean I can stop thinking about leveling classes I don't really want to play for cross class skills? I am a new player and want to get through 3.0 asap in prep for SB, but feel pressure to go down the rabbit trail of picking up cross class skills I need; like quelling strikes lvl 34 archer :/. Can anyone confirm I can just play w/ and forget that for now?

The answer is NO, that will be a thing in the past. you wont have to level another class.

[Gumbercules]

you should be fine just continuing with 3.xx series of quests without quelling strikes, and yeah the cross class revamp is to make it to were they open up by role not by job/class. So using a very loose example atm you get quelling at 34 arc (if i remember right) but come 4.0 it will be more like "open quelling strikes at lvl 34 ranged dps" or w/e the criteria becomes. (as in if your blm hits 34 it opens up quelling strikes for the "ranged dps" category of cross class skills etc)