Red Mage is Range Combat? (Discussion)

[AlexanderThorolund]

Not particularly impressed with the magic dragoon gameplay choice, so far. I've pretty much lost all interest in the expansion because of the way the job currently feels really halfhearted.

No offence but I find that quite rude. I'm not interested in Red Mage at all. Out of all the FF jobs it's the one I was least looking forward to them adding but even I can see that a lot of thought has gone into the class, in both combat and style. I have to take my hat off to them for that. It looks incredibly well thought out.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

No offence but I find that quite rude.

Everyone has an opinion. As it stands right now, RDM looks like a soulless copy of BLM with a gimmick of occasionally swinging their sword for one attack before retreating. I agree that the animations look amazing, but the gameplay style it seems to have looks incredibly lacking in creativity. All I'm hoping for at this point is it at least has some support abilities.

All of this, of course, is not meant to demean the aesthetic of the job I adore, however it is my two cents that I personally find this job to be about as uninspired as could be.

At least it has a sweet vpose.

Honestly you sound quite ridiculous right now. You've lost all interest in the entire expansion because a minute long video that showcased like three whole moves weren't up to your dream of what RDM is supposed to be?

They showed a lot more than just three moves. There were at least 9 different moves used within the video, only two of which actually involved the RDM being in melee range. It's not a seamless blend of spell and steel like a classic true RDM is, it's a range heavy job with a one-off gimmick, as far as I can tell.

All I can realistically hope for now is it has some sort of worthwhile support skills.

No, there were not at least 9 different moves. At most 5. The video was literally 0:49 seconds long, more than half of which was battle stance and victory pose. So, effectively, you are basing your entire disappointment of the whole expansion on maybe 20 seconds of game play.

Three cast spells, one buff, one charge in, one melee attack, one leap back, and one finisher. That's a lot more than 5

[NorthernLadMSP]

They showed a lot more than just three moves. There were at least 9 different moves used within the video, only two of which actually involved the RDM being in melee range. It's not a seamless blend of spell and steel like a classic true RDM is, it's a range heavy job with a one-off gimmick, as far as I can tell.

All I can realistically hope for now is it has some sort of worthwhile support skills.

No, there were not at least 9 different moves. At most 5. The video was literally 0:49 seconds long, more than half of which was battle stance and victory pose. So, effectively, you are basing your entire disappointment of the whole expansion on maybe 20 seconds of game play. Sorry, but that's an extremely over-dramatic and negative way of thinking.

[Duelle]

No, there were not at least 9 different moves. At most 5.

0:31-0:36 - Three spells. Already worrying that the first thing the job does is start casting spells from range.
0:37-0:42 - Gap closer, followed by multi-hit WS, followed by Repelling Shot.
0:43 - not-Flare.

I counted 7 skills. So 1/4 of available skills assuming the lv60 cap. That's still quite a bit, even if we assume that skills automatically switch RDM from ranged to melee.

The video was literally 0:49 seconds long, more than half of which was battle stance and victory pose. So, effectively, you are basing your entire disappointment of the whole expansion on maybe 20 seconds of game play. Sorry, but that's an extremely over-dramatic and negative way of thinking.

It's not unfounded disappointment. RDM is a melee mage. They not only classified it as ranged caster, but started the demo at range instead of melee range (which to me is a red flag). That they classified it a caster tells me we'll get some AoE attack that we'll almost never get to use as our LB, which is a pity because I wanted to see us get something like Chant du Cygne as our melee LB.

Considering that almost every job preview has given us an idea of what the involved jobs do in combat, that short vid so far is saying RDM will be staying out of melee range for most of combat, dashing in at set intervals before going back to ranged. Which means they ignored all the "RDM belong on the front line" threads, not to mention the suggestions provided on these forums. The only upside is that it wasn't shown acting like a buffbot.

I'm reserving judgement until I see the full ability list and all the involved mechanics, but so far I'm not impressed.

[Hyrist]

I'm reserving judgement until I see the full ability list and all the involved mechanics, but so far I'm not impressed.

Sorry to nail you on semantics but... you are rendering judgement, even if it's tentative.

Strange as I actually had a better take away from you, and am rather impressed that both Melee and Caster were utilized in a seamless manner. Yes, it seems to lean more heavily on casting - but that's not dynamically opposed to what Red Mage is

As much of a front-line proponent as I am, the one thing that seems to divide us here is that you feel as if 'front line' was the sole argument for Red Mage. That seems to snuff in the face of those who prefer the caster aspects of the class. It also kinda pushes away from what your own quote in the signature says - both casts and has regular melee attacks. What I saw displayed in front of me was something who utilizes both cast and melee to benefit one another - which is honestly more than what Red Mage ever was in any of it's previous incarnations. (Previously it was always one way, casting improving physical presence and Physical just being on its own.)

Anyways, it does not matter how the job was displayed this early on. We're still six months out and adjustments will be made - and there will also be discussions on how the class will be played in Meta. For example - Auto Attacks - depending on their overall impact on DPS performance verses other casters playing "At a range" may not be optimal in spite of initial design display. We'll see.

But thematically, I don't see anything wrong with what was displayed - I just see, yet again, Red Mages refusing to agree on what the class 'should be'. And I'm getting too old for that kind of nonsense. If playing it is fun, that's all that matters, and honestly, this is looking fun for me.

[NorthernLadMSP]

I'm reserving judgement until I see the full ability list and all the involved mechanics, but so far I'm not impressed.

Good job on reserving judgement.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Three cast spells, one buff, one charge in, one melee attack, one leap back, and one finisher. That's a lot more than 5

Splitting hairs is splitting hairs. The fact still remains, you're pissed about 20 seconds of the first Red Mage video we've ever been shown.

I'll leave you to wallow in your disappointment, while I will continue to be excited about the expansion. Good day to you.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Splitting hairs is splitting hairs. The fact still remains, you're pissed about 20 seconds of the first Red Mage video we've ever been shown.

I'll leave you to wallow in your disappointment, while I will continue to be excited about the expansion. Good day to you.

I was mad over the skill reveal trailer for 3.0 when they showed 15 seconds of a BRD not getting anything interesting. So no, the fact someone who might have been really excited for this class, seeing it turn out like this, might make them lose interest.

Not like the core of the game is changing, you'll still practically fight all bosses like every other boss fight, and the game is still following the trinity system. And really swimming and diving isn't anything anyone should say is worth buying this expansion for, it's minor fluff that should have been implemented in 2.0.

So honestly, to see that a class that could have broken the mold of the game and breathed fresh life into the dps scene, being nothing more then a generic combination of other dps classes. Is something that can be assessed from that video, because again, go watch the 3.0 BRD skill video and you'll understand that X seconds can completely ruin your views that you had previously held.

[NorthernLadMSP]

snip

We can just agree to disagree.

We know NOTHING about how Red Mage is actually going to work based on 20 seconds of a video showcasing 5-6 skills.

If you want to be angry and disappointed with the absolute minimum amount of information possible, then have at it. I prefer to wait and see everything before forming judgement.

[Jetstream_Fox]

We can just agree to disagree.

We know NOTHING about how Red Mage is actually going to work based on 20 seconds of a video showcasing 5-6 skills.

If you want to be angry and disappointed with the absolute minimum amount of information possible, then have at it. I prefer to wait and see everything before forming judgement.

I never said I was mad, A+ with your assumptions.

And I pointed out to a past video that showed off skills that gave enough insight into how a class was going to be expanded in 3.0.

I knew nothing for 3.0 other than BRD was getting the following skills, glowing arrow, broken body animation arrow, stupid hand twirl skill, purple explosion arrow, and two songs. THAT same video segment was roughly the same length as RDM preview. And again that SAME skill showcase video was meant to show off the skills of BRD just like how the RDM video was to show off RDM SKILLS.


If you can't make a educated decision based off information that has been presented to you so far as how the basic idea of the class will play, that's entirely on you as for the video the wick quick jumping in and out of melee range and weaving in magic attacks, is enough to tell me the class is likely going to stance dance or need to utilize melee to get stacks up. It's really not hard to figure out how they're going to use a class based off skills.