Red Mage is Range Combat? (Discussion)

[Vexander]

Is it wrong to say I like FFXIV's Red Mage as far as we have seen it revealed?

If every game's Red Mage is different, why should FFXIV repeat or clone another FF's version of Red Mage? I'm happier with this version of Red Mage that seems a bit more exclusive to FFXIV. So far, at least. What I want at this point is to know the lore behind the class and how it integrates into the game.

Well done, SE. You've given us a unique spin on a fan favorite class. Not many companies can do that. Those who enjoy the class will play it. Those who don't will play a class they do enjoy.

[EdwinLi]

Well done, SE. You've given us a unique spin on a fan favorite class. Not many companies can do that. Those who enjoy the class will play it. Those who don't will play a class they do enjoy.

That part is certainly one of the things I'll be looking at when 4.0 is released and I change my Main Job to Red Mage.

We know so far Red Mage is the combination of White and Black but that begs the question how is Red Magic treated in Eorzea since we know White Magic is limited to a select few due to a certain incident involving a civillization wiping themselves out and Black Magic is considered "Forbidden" Magic due to another civillization bring about too much destruction with that power and wiping themselves out.

However, where does Red Magic come from and is it possible survivors of those civilization actual manage to create a new civillization that focus on using both White and Black Magic thus creating Red Magic.

[Vexander]

That part is certainly one of the things I'll be looking at when 4.0 is released and I change my Main Job to Red Mage.

We know so far Red Mage is the combination of White and Black but that begs the question how is Red Magic treated in Eorzea since we know White Magic is limited to a select few due to a certain incident involving a civillization wiping themselves out and Black Magic is considered "Forbidden" Magic due to another civillization bring about too much destruction with that power and wiping themselves out.

Well, I've heard a few theories on it, and the one I like so far is: Red Mage comes from Sharlayan.

According to the theory, Sharlayan was formed by dissident White and Black Mages during the War of the Magi who joined together and fled Eorzea to escape persecution. Founding Sharlayan they decided that knowledge should become the ends and not the means of their culture and philosophy. Red Mage as a class was formed from the two schools of magic as a safeguard in case they ever had to defend themselves either from Mhach or Amdapor, and when the colony was established in Eorzea, Red Mages were not permitted to travel there due to concern about the origins of the job.

This theory not only explains how Red Mage as a class was able to form (by being off-continent and away from persecution), but even ties in a few additional things such as the outfit looking similar to Sharlayan outfits from dungeons and tome gear. It can also explain one of the class's iconic spells, Haste, since Sharlayan is the only (known) nation which practices any form of chronomancy. The fact the class uses a sword and has high mobility and positioning abilities further adds up as a kind of anti-White/Black Mage class, since a mage is typically weak in melee combat.

As for why Red Mages are suddenly showing up in Eorzea and possibly passing on knowledge of their art, in one of the Letters, we learned that the current set of expansions are telling the story of the reformation of the Eorzean Alliance, and will not conclude until the end of 5.0/start of 6.0. 3.0 was about bringing Ishgard back into the fold. 4.0 will be about liberating Ala Mhigo and, no doubt, bringing them into the Alliance as well. Of the six nations of Eorzea, only Sharlayan would be left as far as the Eorzean Alliance is concerned. The sudden presence of Red Mages could be indicative of a faction in Sharlayan with strong partisanship from Red Mages who oppose the Bibliothecs (the Bibliothecs being the group of Sharlayans forcing Isolation and restriction on the sharing of Sharlayan Knowledge and art).

That's how the theory goes so far anyways. I may have missed some things.

[EdwinLi]

W---.

Well at least they have 10 Job Quest to cover the Red Mage Storyline in 4.0 but I do have some concerns how well it may be flushed out with just 10 Job Storyline quests with the usual 5 Job Story quests per Story Arc being level 50 to 60 for the 1st story Arc as the Apprentice Story Arc and level 60 to 70 for the Master Story Arc as the 2nd Job Story Arc. Else they could go for all 10 Job Quests as the Apprentice Story Arc like they did with Astro and Machinist and save the Master Story Arc for 5.0.

Astro and Machinist had their 1st story arc span from lvl 30 to 60 for their first 10 Job Quest which was enough to give a full story but they never reached their Master Story Arc which will be their 4.0 Job Storyline.

Dark knight had their Apprentice Story Arc for level 30 to 50 which covered enough for the WoL to become a Master level Dark Knight lore wise and then go through the Master Story Arc in level 50 to 60.

[Eloah]

Quest Lore Stuff

I think you are "under-thinking" the quests. if you just take into account the possible skills we will get from quest, then yes RDM would have only 10 quests, between 50-70. But sometimes SE adds in additional quests after the skill quest, or even before it to express more about the lore/story. So while 5 quests are a given, a similar format to the HW job quests, we don't know how the flow from 60-70 will be. For all we know we could have 10 quests from 60-70 alternating between a trait and a skill. It's all speculation at this point.

[Deedsie]

I personally do not like the sword becoming a staff like that. That said, I'm waiting to see what else it can do.

[Vexander]

I personally do not like the sword becoming a staff like that. That said, I'm waiting to see what else it can do.

Honestly, that's my favorite part of the job's iteration for FFXIV. You don't see that in any other FF game, and I think it makes for a very interesting mechanic.

[Duelle]

You don't see that in any other FF game, and I think it makes for a very interesting mechanic.

There's something to be said for rejecting difference for its own sake. It does look a bit weird because the alternative would have been the RDM using their free hand to cast spells (which IMO would have been just fine). I'm not too bothered by it since I instantly thought to myself that someone on the dev team has played Bloodborne; the RDM weapon is basically the Rakuyo but with a jewel instead of a dagger off-hand.

Personally, I wouldn't have gone with the Agrippa-style stance. Partly because I'm not a fan of floating weaponry, as they look very impractical in combat. I'd have gone with a stance derived from Capo Ferro (tucking the off-hand to the chest while holding the jewel, or preferably a short scepter), especially since Capo Ferro involved use of the free hand (sometimes to grapple, sometimes to knock the enemy's blade out of the way) so it'd be fitting to cast weak melee-range spells using the offhand, combine both to cast the bigger spells, and so on.

As for the limit break...

[BubblyBoar]

Can people please please PLEASE stop using the fact that it is categorized as Ranged Magic DPS as a reason that it barely uses melee. Doing so just means you didn't listen to anything Yoshi P said about the job. And since everyone is ignoring the point I made before about it, in this very topic, I'll quote it here for you.

I dont understand how you can be worried about RDM being mainly caster when it uses 3 sword skills in the video. It is categorized as ranged DPS because all jobs have a role that shares a specific LB and soon to be specific cross class skills. If things stay the same, this means RDM will likely get things like swiftcast, Raging strikes, Bliz 2 and other junk. It does both ranged and melee, as seen in the video, but it is classified in the "Rnaged Magic DPS" role for the sake of classification within the game.

Why did the red mage start at ranged position and cast? That's simple, to show positioning aspect of RDM. Namely, being far for cast and close for weaponskills. Alternatively, they could have just did it in reverse. Weapon skill first, backflip and start to cast, gab closer, and then finish with a presumed melee chainspell finisher. Would the compliant then be that RDM has too much melee and not enough magic? Would there be another topic with someone crying that RDM isn't mage enough even though it has MAGE in it's name?

Do you see why your judgment here is a bit silly and why people are wondering why you are so disappointed? From what is shown, RDM mage has an even amount of magic and melee based around chainspell and positioning. You can literally see it in the video as I explained in my previous post. I wouldn't be surprised if, instead of rear and flank positionals, RDM had far and close instead, considering Yoshi said it's gameplay would be based on high-speed positioning. You know what doesn't have those things, other casters. You know what does have postionals, melee classes.

My previous post in case you missed it:

[EdwinLi]

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A bit off topic...

Not going to lie but if that "Repelling shot" skill is a required combo skill for Red Mage just to get into proper distance I will be laughing like crazy when a bunch of Red Mages "jump" off to their death on Primal Fights or any Dungeon Boss Fights that have dangerous zones that made the stage too small to jump back.

Back on topic...

Well looking at it this way the most effective way to handle Red Mage once they get their melee skills would certainly be to keep the Red Mage Melee Range so it does not need to waste time running back and forth between melee and range combat. This way the Red Mage can get strait to their melee attacks and chainspell attacks much faster and only need to "Repelling shot" if things are safe to jump back.