Can Red Mage start at level 30?

[Naunet]

You are trying to make an argument about alts now. That isn't what we were talking about. So yes, interesting.

No, I'm pointing out the very important differences between your examples and FFXIV. Does SE plan to provide a free character boost with every purchase of the game? Does SE plan to make it so that, instead of having to level up to 50 and do the ARR story on every character in order to access HW and SB jobs, you only have to have done it on one character on the account?

If not, then your examples are not comparable.

[SDaemon]

No, I'm pointing out the very important differences between your examples and FFXIV. Does SE plan to provide a free character boost with every purchase of the game? Does SE plan to make it so that, instead of having to level up to 50 and do the ARR story on every character in order to access HW and SB jobs, you only have to have done it on one character on the account?

If not, then your examples are not comparable.

At the moment I can't even tell what you are trying to argue anymore other than you are focusing on alts and WoW's level skip bundle. Are we talking about new jobs in regards to making alts now?

[AlphaFox]

I know Eden Eternal and Skyforge seem to be doing well though Skyforge (unless I am mistaken or they changed it) required you to grind weekly materials, skill point orbs and such to work your way around a FFX like grid to unlock the job, so you had free range of the map once you picked your starter. Eden Eternal was more like Tactics, in that you needed X level of this class to unlock this class, or you need these two at this level to unlock. Plus you had to start over at level 1 but you had a Job level and you had your character level, so you wouldn't be starting exactly back at level 1, you would have some bonuses to your stats.

Skyforge, I think took me 2-3 weeks of playing from start to unlock my first class Reaper, but I also bypassed 1 other that I could have gotten but that would have used my resources which again, are capped weekly. Though upside they had places where you can test the job and even some missions let you run as that class without it being unlocked.

[Naunet]

It's not that hard to follow. I suspect you're trying to claim I'm being confusing in an effort to devalue my point.

- I assert that it's an unnecessary burden and not particularly fun for new and old players alike to have jobs locked away behind a large grind wall.
- You claim that other MMOs have done similar things and point out WoW and TERA as examples.
- I (and another person) point out that both only require you to have leveled ONCE, which then makes those classes available to any character you wish to make, while FFXIV requires that you level through ARR on every single character you ever make in order to access those jobs. We also point out that the impact on new players in those games is negligible at best, because the purchase of Legion comes with a level 90 character boost, which basically means the "must have a level 70 to make a demon hunter" requirement may as well not exist.
- I pointed these out because it displays that FFXIV's situation is unique and damages the player experience in ways the other examples do not.
- Now you can't follow the conversation for some reason..?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

- I (and another person) point out that both only require you to have leveled ONCE, which then makes those classes available to any character you wish to make, while FFXIV requires that you level through ARR on every single character you ever make in order to access those jobs. We also point out that the impact on new players in those games is negligible at best, because the purchase of Legion comes with a level 90 character boost, which basically means the "must have a level 70 to make a demon hunter" requirement may as well not exist.
- I pointed these out because it displays that FFXIV's situation is unique and damages the player experience in ways the other examples do not.
- Now you can't follow the conversation for some reason..?

How many of these other examples let you make 1 character that can unlock every class in the game? That argument seems a bit silly in this regard.

[loreleidiangelo]

How many of these other examples let you make 1 character that can unlock every class in the game? That argument seems a bit silly in this regard.

To be fair, XIV's method of gear-gating at this point does make it advantageous to simply make a brand new character if you're interested in playing more than one job competitively at endgame. I have a friend who plays two characters - he raids on his main, a WAR, and also raids on his alt, a SCH. He would prefer to do both of those jobs on one character for convenience's sake, but with raid lockouts and weekly tome caps he simply couldn't play both at the same time at the serious endgame level (not without waiting several months to finish gearing his WAR then trying to attempt the raid as SCH...which would require the SCH in his raid group to have some other role THEY could swap to. It was just easier for him to find a second raid group and do double the weekly content).

I honestly think the game could improve much in this regard. My friend is not the only player I know who has made alternate characters purely out of frustration at the constant weekly gear gating... I know some people make alts for racial flavor, RP, or just because they want to do the MSQ again, but I don't really feel like it should be a requirement simply to gear more than one job at faster than a snail's pace.

That said, I don't get the hand-wringing over the RDM 50 requirement, my comments are more on a general level about how FFXIV's "one character can do it all" appeal isn't quite so accurate anymore. Even crafters are being forced to prioritize now.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To be fair, XIV's method of gear-gating at this point does make it advantageous to simply make a brand new character if you're interested in playing more than one job competitively at endgame. I have a friend who plays two characters - he raids on his main, a WAR, and also raids on his alt, a SCH. He would prefer to do both of those jobs on one character for convenience's sake, but with raid lockouts and weekly tome caps he simply couldn't play both at the same time at the serious endgame level (not without waiting several months to finish gearing his WAR then trying to attempt the raid as SCH...which would require the SCH in his raid group to have some other role THEY could swap to. It was just easier for him to find a second raid group and do double the weekly content).

I honestly think the game could improve much in this regard. My friend is not the only player I know who has made alternate characters purely out of frustration at the constant weekly gear gating... I know some people make alts for racial flavor, RP, or just because they want to do the MSQ again, but I don't really feel like it should be a requirement simply to gear more than one job at faster than a snail's pace.

That said, I don't get the hand-wringing over the RDM 50 requirement, my comments are more on a general level about how FFXIV's "one character can do it all" appeal isn't quite so accurate anymore. Even crafters are being forced to prioritize now.

As someone who is leveling an alt now for this precise reason, I echo this same sentiment. It doesn't help Savage drops are not only randomized but upon completing it, you screw any other group you run with out of a second coffer. It essentially forces people to either level an alt or stick to only playing with the same seven people each week. Considering the devs are constantly looking for us to focus more social interaction. It's odd they implement a system that only discourages that. And don't get be started on the disaster craft gating has been throughout Heavensward.

Little off-topic, I admit. But the way gear forces you on one job irks me.

[Khalithar]

- I (and another person) point out that both only require you to have leveled ONCE, which then makes those classes available to any character you wish to make, while FFXIV requires that you level through ARR on every single character you ever make in order to access those jobs. We also point out that the impact on new players in those games is negligible at best, because the purchase of Legion comes with a level 90 character boost, which basically means the "must have a level 70 to make a demon hunter" requirement may as well not exist.

Legion comes with a level 100 character boost and let's you jump immediately in to the new content.

[Naunet]

How many of these other examples let you make 1 character that can unlock every class in the game? That argument seems a bit silly in this regard.

What does that have to do with anything? If the game didn't allow alts, you'd have a point, but since we are perfectly free to make multiple characters, it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to roll a character as the job we'd like.

Legion comes with a level 100 character boost and let's you jump immediately in to the new content.

Oh, my mistake! Definitely just reinforces my point, though.

[Lexia]

The job system kind of follows a modified version of XI's system. You had to level 30 in order to do a "advanced job" and it was per character not per account and the grind in that game was way more then you will ever find in XIV.