Why do people want SAM to be a tank!?

[FallenWings]

I'm sorry, I wholly disagree. I understand their overall point, get that perfectly fine, and there is some merit to it. And yeah, I'm probably taking it a little personally, but there is absolutely a sideways insult towards non-tank players in there.



You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do? Cause if not, then I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. But no, how about I just sit there and take the hit, or strike from the front and take all those tankbusters and cleaves! Yup, mhm, now I'm an honorable Monk right?

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

[StarRosie]

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

I understand that, really I do. I get that you are romanticizing your role because you feel unappreciated (Even though I don't see that. I show many tanks appreciation when I can.) and some treat you like mere meatshields. But I don't agree that tanks alone are 'the hero'. They are one of the heroes.

To answer your ultimate question at the end. Neither and both. Not all Samurai held the same code of honor, to some striking from behind was dishonorable yes, but to others it was smart tactics. This is a very fine line though, it is all a matter of personal honor really.

One issue is also the fact you are making this argument, solely in the context of duties or trials. What about solo content? I never had a knight to hold the Aggro of all the enemies I was fighting during my monk quests, it was just me vs H'raha Tia, face to face, fist to fist. Nor did I have someone to protect me from facing certain story quests. Within the context of duties, yeah, we monks have to strike from the rear or sides but outside of that? We are fighting face to face just as much as a tank.

The other issue is using Ninjas as a comparison, because there are stories and dramatizations of Ninjas as being honorable warriors in their own right, while other stories paint them as dishonorable or slimy. It's all eye of the beholder level stuff.

So when you ask do I think Samurai would be 'honorable' and fight face to face or 'dishonorable' and strike from behind, I say both yet neither. Because it is not up to me, I cannot judge your honor and you cannot judge mine, the only one who can judge ones honor is oneself.

Also to end this, I am sorry, I overreacted a little, I still think that was an unnecessary jab but, I apologize for overreacting and getting mildly heated.

[niwaar]

The only way I see them making Samurai a tank is if that becomes their solution to Warrior basically being mandatory for raiding. In that sense, it would be PLD vs. DRK and WAR vs. SAM for whoever you bring. Can't say how exactly I feel about that idea since it doesn't solve the problem so much as just introduces another overpowered job to "balance" it.

This. So very much this. SAM as a tank is not a bad thing. A counter attack/third eye tank with tp buff abilities could directly counter WARs place in the meta, as the OT. Because let's face it, this game has never come close to early WoW when it comes to multi-tank encounter design. It is either routine damage splitting, forced tank swapping or adds. We haven't seen any real gifts that require 2 tanks for more than a small portion of the fight.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do?

As a DPSer myself, I feel that's reaching. I see no problem anything that's been said, and I'm honestly confused about just where the 'insult' is.

[StarRosie]

As a DPSer myself, I feel that's reaching. I see no problem anything that's been said, and I'm honestly confused about just where the 'insult' is.

It's nothing. I overreacted and such, some things spilled over into this and just...yeah. So don't worry about it.

[Konungarike]

The point being made of SAM being honourable warriors is kind of amusing when you consider that historical samurai used to murder travelling peasants to test their equipment. Just a funny thing I noted. ;P

[hagare]

The point being made of SAM being honourable warriors is kind of amusing when you consider that historical samurai used to murder travelling peasants to test their equipment. Just a funny thing I noted. ;P

Pretty much the same thing with knights.
They have been romanticized as protectors so much when in truth most of them were just thugs with armor. xD

[Kyuuen]

I think the idea of "Honorable Samurai" is being a bit stretched here. Think about it. Really think about it. Do you believe that anyone; ANYONE, in the thick of battle (not a one on one, but actual battle) is standing around after killing an enemy combatant and just waiting for their next target to make eye contact? I can't imagine any Samurai doing that and living past that battle.