Why do people want SAM to be a tank!?

[Anienai]

Legendary post

I agree 103%

[StarRosie]

Man, what a great tanking weapon axe is amirite? With it's inferior speed and maneuverability over a sword as well!
It can't possibly be a DPS weapon with it's sheer impact power over any other weapon class save for hammer right?

It's like tanks are completely incapable of doing any "hard hits" or "powerful strikes". All they seem to do is just stand there and hold their weapons up to perpetually block or parry.

It's not like tanks, especially in this game, are quite possibly the most badass role.

It's not like they're the guys literally in the front doing mortal combat with several giant dragons, pagan gods and time-travelling fortresses; shrugging off giant sky piercing death-beams and returning the pain with powerful cleaves/eating souls/unleashing their spirits from inside(I tried).

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction. Who would've known?

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

[Belhi]

If it's a tank class then I'm going to be pissed b/c they were deciding on DRK or SAM to be the tank class in Heavensward and ultimately they decided to go with DRK as the tank class since the setting for Heavensward wasn't right for SAM and on top of that Yoshida already said he sees SAM as more of a DPS than a tank. If it's a tank then I would've wished they would've just added it in Heavensward like they originally wanted and made DRK a 2 handed DPS class instead.

Also, SAM has always been a DPS class in all the FF games. I know that doesn't apply here as we saw with DRK getting the twist of becoming a tank in this game when they also have always been a DPS class in other FF games, but in all honesty I've always seen SAM as a hard hitting 2 handed DPS class.

Honestly I don't think a melee dps was likely to be added in HW and with RDM we probably won't see one in Stormblood. Melee dps are already the most common available job. They were bound to fill out the others first.

[Vexander]

Well, if Samurai is being added in Stormblood, and SE follows the standard of adding 1 of each role as a new job, and with RDM being revealed and shown to us as a DPS, then Samurai could either be a tank, a healer, or not included in this expansion. I can't say I would want it to be a Healer as I'm not sure that makes sense. It could be a tank, but that does give us 3 sword tanks. It could also be saved for a future expansion, but would that annoy people wanting to play Samurai really badly?

It feels like, "Tank, or bust," at this point.

[shao32]

snip

hehe yeah in any case this go to be a stormblood

[LadyKairi]

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

This. Is healers should be given credit, since we are helping with doing damage, as well as keeping you tanks alive. Without us, you would be dead in those fights against dragons, gods and fortresses. We decided whether you live or die.

[Shippuu]

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

Whew, that's a bit of a reach to try and get offended. Their point is valid in that DPS roles stand either from afar or attack from behind. They never said anything about the actual people playing them, eesh. If you're looking at a role that's appears the most heroic, it's clearly the tank role, they face the enemies head on, and suffer/sacrifice themselves for the reast of the party. Samurai are steeped with fantasies about honor and servitude which is befitting for a role as a tank. Most people would consider it a rather dishonorable thing to attack an enemy from behind while they're otherwise preoccupied fighting someone else.

Again though, they never insinuated DPS players were cowards, that's on you if you're gonna go through the mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

This. Is healers should be given credit, since we are helping with doing damage, as well as keeping you tanks alive. Without us, you would be dead in those fights against dragons, gods and fortresses. We decided whether you live or die.

Tanks and healers have a symbiotic relationship. Without Healers, tanks would eventually die to the damage, but without tanks, healers would become red smears on the ground. So while healers may decide whether people live or die, without the tank everyone would die.

[StarRosie]

snip

I'm sorry, I wholly disagree. I understand their overall point, get that perfectly fine, and there is some merit to it. And yeah, I'm probably taking it a little personally, but there is absolutely a sideways insult towards non-tank players in there.

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction.

You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do? Cause if not, then I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. But no, how about I just sit there and take the hit, or strike from the front and take all those tankbusters and cleaves! Yup, mhm, now I'm an honorable Monk right?

[FallenWings]

I'm sorry, I wholly disagree. I understand their overall point, get that perfectly fine, and there is some merit to it. And yeah, I'm probably taking it a little personally, but there is absolutely a sideways insult towards non-tank players in there.



You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do? Cause if not, then I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. But no, how about I just sit there and take the hit, or strike from the front and take all those tankbusters and cleaves! Yup, mhm, now I'm an honorable Monk right?

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

[StarRosie]

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

I understand that, really I do. I get that you are romanticizing your role because you feel unappreciated (Even though I don't see that. I show many tanks appreciation when I can.) and some treat you like mere meatshields. But I don't agree that tanks alone are 'the hero'. They are one of the heroes.

To answer your ultimate question at the end. Neither and both. Not all Samurai held the same code of honor, to some striking from behind was dishonorable yes, but to others it was smart tactics. This is a very fine line though, it is all a matter of personal honor really.

One issue is also the fact you are making this argument, solely in the context of duties or trials. What about solo content? I never had a knight to hold the Aggro of all the enemies I was fighting during my monk quests, it was just me vs H'raha Tia, face to face, fist to fist. Nor did I have someone to protect me from facing certain story quests. Within the context of duties, yeah, we monks have to strike from the rear or sides but outside of that? We are fighting face to face just as much as a tank.

The other issue is using Ninjas as a comparison, because there are stories and dramatizations of Ninjas as being honorable warriors in their own right, while other stories paint them as dishonorable or slimy. It's all eye of the beholder level stuff.

So when you ask do I think Samurai would be 'honorable' and fight face to face or 'dishonorable' and strike from behind, I say both yet neither. Because it is not up to me, I cannot judge your honor and you cannot judge mine, the only one who can judge ones honor is oneself.

Also to end this, I am sorry, I overreacted a little, I still think that was an unnecessary jab but, I apologize for overreacting and getting mildly heated.