DF Tanks and Whm

[SundayTrash]

At this point you're just dealing with trolls doing this on purpose. Not your average DFer. They can get kicked and reported for griefing

Na, I told a couple of healers to stop with aoe hots and their reply is I don't know what hots does and it heals overtime with healer when no one is bloodly taking damage.

[PArcher]

Na, I told a couple of healers to stop with aoe hots and their reply is I don't know what hots does and it heals overtime with healer when no one is bloodly taking damage.

Yeah, that's a troll. Especially if they have gear. If you truly believe they aren't, they're still griefing if they don't listen, and can get kicked

[Miste]

Yeah, that's a troll. Especially if they have gear. If you truly believe they aren't, they're still griefing if they don't listen, and can get kicked

Most people by now can be in full scripture gear (as long as they spent most of it into one job anyway) making them like i260 at least without even stepping into savage so it's pretty easy to have gear at this point. They won't be beyond i260 unless they do savage but i260 is still geared enough to pull high hate with overhealing and you don't actually have to know how to play healer to get scripture gear for it.

[PArcher]

Most people by now can be in full scripture gear (as long as they spent most of it into one job anyway) making them like i260 at least without even stepping into savage so it's pretty easy to have gear at this point. They won't be beyond i260 unless they do savage but i260 is still geared enough to pull high hate with overhealing and you don't actually have to know how to play healer to get scripture gear for it.

If you have full scripture for a role, you've played for long enough that it should be expected to know the basics of at least the jobs you play, and how to read your ability descriptions.

If you refuse to learn even the basics, especially over a long period of time, you're a troll.

[SundayTrash]

If you have full scripture for a role, you've played for long enough that it should be expected to know the basics of at least the jobs you play, and how to read your ability descriptions.

If you refuse to learn even the basics, especially over a long period of time, you're a troll.

most ppl don't even know whats the little bar beneath their job symbol, espically healer that don't realize how much aggro aoe hots are pulling.

[Miste]

If you have full scripture for a role, you've played for long enough that it should be expected to know the basics of at least the jobs you play, and how to read your ability descriptions.

If you refuse to learn even the basics, especially over a long period of time, you're a troll.

I dislike when people put zero effort as well, but I assure you no matter how much we wish it they aren't all trolls. They just don't know how to play and/or don't care. Trolls are usually people who know how to play but intentionally don't do things right in order to mess with others to get attention or a negative reaction.

You can easily be a full scripture and i260 relic weapon healer and be unaware of some basics (like hate generation or how to even see how much hate they are pulling) and how to play it well. Scripture is just too easily obtained.

[PArcher]

Yeah, I'm done. Feast rage has worn off

But I will say, making excuses for bad players instead of educating them or kicking the trolls is not a good way to improve yourself or others.

I have no aggro issues even on my i253 tank alt; all I can see from this conversation is that I'm doing something right that lets me hold aggro even in DPS stance without issues if I try. Or I've gotten really lucky over the past 13 weeks of Alex normal on two characters and never seen trolls this bad. IDK.

[Moomba33]

On the rare occasions I tank I stay in tank stance 100% of the time since it's not a role I'm confident in.
Luckily for the DF population I generally only tank in full groups of friends so I won't be there slowing your runs down.

[Fluffernuff]

Sorry, OP. If I don't know the healers, I am NOT going to drop my tank stance; I'd rather have that padding. I only drop mine if I am with healers I know will keep me up, or if I notice that the PUG healer I have is actually competent.

Just to add to this point (after farming a12n multiple times every week for a single freaking drop) I'm pretty confident in my ability to MT it as DRK/PLD, but I still keep tank stance up just because of the mitigation. Yeah, I know. using tank stance for more than the emnity boost. blasphemy... BUT My survival means much more than the damage I'm doing:
Role > Mechanics > Personal DPS

I mean, just numerically, as a DRK, I take a huge risk dropping grit. taking a Punishing Heat raw w/Grit is a 18-20k hit. 2/3rds of my HP gone. Let's take that hit without Grit... or cooldowns. 20k +20%? so that's 24k out of my ~30-31k HP pool. I have 6-7k hp to survive a mega holy, an auto, and/or maybe a divine spear before the healers -maybe- noticing before i flop over. I can't be relying on living dead for every Punishing heat. But apparently I have to take that risk because I need to do my DPS!

Then again, If I drop grit for "muh damage" and only have say... shadowskin available, that'll be.... still 18-20k damage since shadowskin and grit are... kinda the same mitigation? Now, I can also put up grit before Punishing Heat, sure. But uh... pretty sure it's well known and well documented how MP friendly actually stance dancing is for DRK, right? Grit is very cheap to use as a CD, clearly. And don't get me started about stacking CD's to compensate. DRK has 1 CD lined up for every punishing heat(Shadowskin, DA+DM, and shadow wall). if I stack them for 1, then I AM going to eat 1 raw later (18-24k damage right there). that's NOT a good trade-off. Totally something every healer ever is prepared for without communication, eh?

PLD is even worse in that regard. I mean. I'm alot more free to stance dance for Punishing Heat, but it also is magical damage and ignores blocking. That means PLD doesn't have enough cooldowns and WILL eat a Punishing Heat raw. Punishing Heat laughs at sheltron.
I'm not sure how often PLD will eat a raw PH though, so if it's 1 then they have HG...

All in all I've found that if I drop Grit OR ShO, at all in a12, it REQUIRES the healers to keep me AT LEAST at 21k HP... 100% of the time. and thats just to take the initial hit! if it's the rotation when alex folows up punishing heat with a divine spear? yeah. I'm dead. even mitigated, that combo is like 13K+9k, pretty sure that specific combo is lethal if taken raw.

I have to ask myself. is my DPS worth a wipe? If I die because of a raw Punishing Heat, how much DPS can I do with Weakness?



Just because the highest possible ability can be achieved by others doesn't mean that I can, should, or will, submit to the expectation to achieve that ability.

[SundayTrash]

as dark knight u also have delirium, u can DA + DM the first Punishing Heat and it would only do 13k damage, and remember DM is on short CD so u can alternate between that and shadowskin or shadow wall. as for paladin they have ramparts, sentinel and dividene veil, and by than ur ramparts should be up again.