DF Tanks and Whm

[Yeol]

Not sure how, I cant even get that over 3 minutes on a dummy.

It is very possible thanks to party buffs (AST Cards, trick attack, storms eyes, hypercharge, battle litany) and if you have a NIN is it easy.

[Fluffernuff]

Not sure how, I cant even get that over 3 minutes on a dummy.

Trick Attack, Litany, Storm/Dancing Edge, access to Swipe, etc. etc. will help quite a bit

And you'll be told "playstyle differences"

Actually, "harassment" over parses is very much a flat black and white. That's... kinda the OP's issue. tanks pulling "unacceptable" dps solely because of tank stance...

Now, I would understand the playstyle sarcastic remark if it were flipped. I can see that if the MT never once touched tank stance

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

It is very possible thanks to party buffs (AST Cards, trick attack, storms eyes, hypercharge, battle litany) and if you have a NIN is it easy.

Makes sense. But then, thats not the tank doing dps, thats the tank getting party buffs :P I dont really care either way, I was just surprised that the buffs had that much of an effect. ive been top dps in the old 2.0 24man raids on PLD >.>

[PArcher]

Makes sense. But then, thats not the tank doing dps, thats the tank getting party buffs :P I dont really care either way, I was just surprised that the buffs had that much of an effect.

He still needs to know how to DPS as main tank, pop CDs properly to survive in Sword Oath, and use the exact number of Halones to keep aggro and no more (DPS loss and all). If we had a MCH he could definitely do better (and if our WHM would learn to play AST better :\ ). 1800 DPS in A9S for PLD is 95th percentile (ish), so its not easy to get to.

[PArcher]

This actually goes back to the party.
DPs and healers have abilities to reduce their aggro generation. It helps tanks a lot, but sadly you won't find people using them regularly in DF because they don't think they are necessary.

I do Alex normal on two characters each week (usually as tank...and I know I'm crazy already, thanks), I've never had issues holding aggro, even in DPS stance. Usually those who don't reduce their enmity don't generate enough to require it to be reduced, and those that can potentially steal aggro use their abilities. If I slip up, or someone good does forget, I need to be in tank stance a little longer and use another aggro combo or three. Not a big deal; I'm not in DF to get good DPS, I'm there to get my weekly token as painlessly as possible. Savage is where I really try to get good numbers.
And if I'm in tank stance the entire time thanks to something going wrong (even if that's just a bad party), I don't even pay attention to party aggro since I'm generating too much, unless I'm on DRK (seriously, if a WAR loses hate they're just bad. Or ridiculously undergeared)

[GMERC]

He still needs to know how to DPS as main tank, pop CDs properly to survive in Sword Oath, and use the exact number of Halones to keep aggro and no more (DPS loss and all). If we had a MCH he could definitely do better (and if our WHM would learn to play AST better :\ ). 1800 DPS in A9S for PLD is 95th percentile (ish), so its not easy to get to.

It's also largely irrelevant, because it's happening in catered runs. A lot of people play vastly below a certain competency threshold (I would argue I have plenty of room to improve myself), but fflogs percentile is not how to guage expected ordinary performance.

[Miste]

If you're a good tank, no-one in DF will pull aggro from you. Even when full-on DPSing. If you lose aggro, its all on you.

If you've seen the amount of WHM and AST I've seen overhealing like mad you wouldn't say such a thing. Also yeah like others said healers like that don't know what Shroud is or care about their hate.

I even saw an AST use Collective right at the beginning of a fight for no reason and use a Diurnal Aspected Helios since obviously the Collectives 3500 HP a tick regen on everyone wasn't enough right /sarcasm lol, MT could no longer use anything but hate combos since the AST was right on his butt with hate because of senseless massive overhealing. Oh and this was without dropping tank stance...if he dropped it the AST would definitely have hate.

Tanks fault? Hell no.

[PArcher]

It's also largely irrelevant, because it's happening in catered runs. A lot of people play vastly below a certain competency threshold (I would argue I have plenty of room to improve myself), but fflogs percentile is not how to guage expected ordinary performance.

Oh, I know the top are usually catered (I do say usually, because there are some 99th percentile parses that aren't). But its still a decent gauge of relative ability, especially on A9S with its tens of thousands of clears. (Heck, according to SE there are 20,000 A12S clears [character based, not group] as of the beginning of this month. That's a large enough sample size to get a good idea how you are doing relative to others, even with catered parses. A9S has many more times that number of clears)

We don't cater because we have no MCH and our AST just...doesn't. AoE Balance and Arrow seems to be all he does :\

[PArcher]

If you've seen the amount of WHM and AST I've seen overhealing like mad you wouldn't say such a thing. Also yeah like others said healers like that don't know what Shroud is or care about their hate.

I even saw an AST use Collective right at the beginning of a fight for no reason and use a Diurnal Aspected Helios since obviously the Collectives 3500 HP a tick regen on everyone wasn't enough right /sarcasm lol, MT could no longer use anything but hate combos since the AST was right on his butt with hate because of senseless massive overhealing. Oh and this was without dropping tank stance...if he dropped it the AST would definitely have hate.

Tanks fault? Hell no.

At this point you're just dealing with trolls doing this on purpose. Not your average DFer. They can get kicked and reported for griefing

[Miste]

At this point you're just dealing with trolls doing this on purpose. Not your average DFer. They can get kicked and reported for griefing

Honestly I wish I could believe they are all just trolling, but I see healers spam and generate massive hate really often now and most WHM's I see never touch shroud. It's disheartening. I really doubt I am running into that many trolls...maybe some of them were.