@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Alacran]

I just don't understand how RDM is not an answer to the completely "necessary" sword DPS. For that matter BLU(or RDM) the idea of a dual wielding scimitar(rapiers) swordsman DPS should have so many little Kiriho wannabes giggling with glee.

The idea of the massive rework needed to make the vaunted RDM TANK would in essence change many of the core staples of existing tanking mechanics, there by changing the whole way they are played. Effectively, your asking one group to change everything they know to accommodate a single option being proposed by a player base that are not TANKS...

Fending armor already in the game has the dubious honor of being used by three different jobs atm. Do you honestly feel that's a coincidence? An overlooked design flaw? The poles reveal what we all know, Tanking is stressful, full of responsibility, and a necessary role far to often shouldered by far to few. Understanding this, seeing the data in black and white the devs know that any increase, however marginal is absolutely a success. The opposite being a a drop in tanking numbers that would bring an already tenuous balance to a breaking point. We all saw the memes funny as they were they would have echoed far truer had DRK not been introduced.


Take a moment to really think about this objectively, the best way to have a successful launch(jump potions included *retch*) is to have a player base more quickly be allowed to enjoy the newest content as seamlessly as possible. This includes having a balanced set of new job that evenly distribute new and old players among roles needed to gain access to new content. Looking at what the current storyline has established what feasible job could A.) Bring people to a role notorious for unpopularity across every mmo following the trinity system, through sheer popularity of it's real and mythological history. B.) Has a theme not already shared by two already existing jobs(eastern fighter). C,) Would make the most sense to use due to not needing to rework core systems, create new class of gear specifically for it?

I could also mention that assets from Heavensward could be used from when it was first conceptualized as a TANK (tell me again the assets were used for DRK, a job using a greatswords and the power of darkness) and were in fact down to the wire, DRK edging out due to mere setting.

Even as i say this i won't be surprised if it is a DPS, i really hope it's not but the fanboy outcry would be thunderous (or what ever you call lots of really loud wailing). I'll level it once i get through MSQ with my main (even if SAM is a TANK. DRK will stay my main) I'll watch the FATE spaming SAM armies trip over themselves, maybe run some PoTD and watch the FFXIV equivalent to the end of The Last Samurai as they all rush around getting blown up by landmines and other traps. Good times, lot to look forward to.

[ReplicaX]

Snip

Regardless of the outcome, it's not something I will personally cry or be upset about. DRK and SAM have backgrounds in the series as both Tanks and DPS. There was some outcry when DRK was announced as a Tank and many wanted it DPS. I feel they did a good job fitting it in XIV as a tank and accepted by the community once ppl got their hands on it.

Community wise SAM will have outcry, just because it has been a popular request since even 1.0 to have a SAM DPS job.

RDM, if SE can make it work in the role they decide, regardless of the outcome. The more the merrier. If anything a RDM DPS will please a ton of former XI players, besides those interested in the job itself. My true intentions and opinion were to have RDM stir the pot this time around.

[Walfan]

Blue Mage as anything but a caster betrays its identity pretty hard.

Kimahri is a blue mage and is a close-range warrior using a spear. Their core identity is using monster abilities, not cast times.

Ya it is more about getting players to play a Tank in Group content instead of only playing it in non-group content. You can have a entire Map of Players playing SAM Tank or Dark Knight Tank and if you ask all of them, while some how get all of them to answer the question, how many of them even play that Tank Job in group content then majority would probably say they don't bother with Group content, dungeons and etc, which is why they level their Tank Job in easy non-group required contents such as mindlessly grinding FATEs.

100 players.
10 play tank.
SAM is released as a tank, 10 players start playing it, 5 of those in actual group content.
We now have 15 tank players.
I fail to see how the 5 other players who only want to look cool in hubs and stuff are in any way relevant.
Unless you think leveling the job is enough to count you amongst tank players ? So what are the players who level all jobs but only play one role in group content ?
I have SMN leveled but I'm not going to gear it first nor do I play it in high-end content. Am I a dps player ?
I mean, if some people aren't even going to play the job in group content, the only place where job roles matter, you shouldn't count them as tank but as the roles they actually play.
Like seriously I still don't comprehend your logic here and how it's a good argument against the fact popular jobs can make people try tanks.

Community wise SAM will have outcry, just because it has been a popular request since even 1.0 to have a SAM DPS job.

Most people play dps + SAM is a very popular job = most people will be angry they don't get the toy they wanted.
How is it in any way surprising ? Tanks are a minority but does it mean they shouldn't get nice toys when the dps want them too? Do only the dps deserve it because they are more of them ? Do us tanks only get the leftovers ?
Anyone bringing up stuff like the number of likes this thread got as if it's in any way relevant needs to learn what logic and fairness are before they post.

EDIT : Even if you really want to bring it up, by using the number of likes of the first two posts in this thread you can see around 20% are in favor of SAM tank, almost exactly the % of tank players.
"So if it's the same number how is SAM tank going to help ?" Flawed logic again. If people want SAM as a dps they will support it as a dps, only then if it's released as a tank may they be willing to try it as a tank.

[EdwinLi]

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I believe you misunderstand my post or are you trying to use my post as a example of the main issue getting more players to play Tank Job in Group content?

Either way, the point is SAM Tank will only be considered as a Tank Job that successfully solved a bit of the Tank Population issue if it actually has a noticable effect on the Tank Population in Group content.

As you said we can have a 100 players playing SAM Tank but if only 10 actually use it for Group content then it has not changed the current issue of Tank Jobs in Group content being the lack of Tank Players in group content.

Either way SAM Tank or SAM Dps we are looking at a major outcry to Group content populations no matter how it goes. People who want SAM tank will support it for their own reasons, either because they see it as the only way to be a tank, want to be a "cool" samurai as a Tank, think the "cool" factor of being a Samurai is enough to make people play a Tank in group content, or "anime" reasons, and people want it as a DPS will support it as a DPS for their own reasons as well, either for sword dps, focus on causing a slaughter fest with a sword as a Samurai, or "anime" reasons.

[Walfan]

I believe you misunderstand my post or are you trying to use my post as a example of the main issue getting more players to play Tank Job in Group content?

Either way, the point is SAM Tank will only be considered as a Tank Job that successfully solved a bit of the Tank Population issue if it actually has a noticable effect on the Tank Population in Group content.

As you said we can have a 100 players playing SAM Tank but if only 10 actually use it for Group content then it has not changed the current issue of Tank Jobs in Group content being the lack of Tank Players in group content.

It doesn't matter if 10 or 1000 dps players like to parade around in the job outside of group content as long as more people pick up tanking in actual group content because of SAM, something which has worked with DRK like other posts proved.

Either way SAM Tank or SAM Dps we are looking at a major outcry to Group content populations no matter how it goes. People who want SAM tank will support it for their own reasons, either because they see it as the only way to be a tank, want to be a "cool" samurai as a Tank, think the "cool" factor of being a Samurai is enough to make people play a Tank in group content, or "anime" reasons, and people want it as a DPS will support it as a DPS for their own reasons as well, either for sword dps, focus on causing a slaughter fest with a sword as a Samurai, or "anime" reasons.

That's a given. My point was that the majority shouldn't dictate what the dev team should do.

I still maintain making SAM a tank is the better and more logical choice, but in the end it depends on square's priorities.
Do they care more about increasing/stabilizing the tank population ? Or do they prefer trying to attract new players, far more easily lured by a cool new dps job than a tank one ?

[GMERC]

It doesn't matter if 10 or 1000 dps players like to parade around in the job outside of group content as long as more people pick up tanking in actual group content because of SAM, something which has worked with DRK like other posts proved.

We don't actually have numbers to suggest that DRK did that to any significant degree at all.

[Shippuu]

Kimahri is a blue mage and is a close-range warrior using a spear. Their core identity is using monster abilities, not cast times.

Kimahri may be a poor example due to the fact most characters in Final Fantasy X are a combination of two other FF jobs, Kimahri being Dragoon and Blue Mage (Auron is Samurai+Knight etc.).

However, you are still correct in that the only unifying identity Blue Mage has throughout it's iterations is that it uses monster abilities. In fact, Blue Mage has one of the widest variety in terms of design/look across multiple Final Fantasy titles. This means it's iteration in FFXIV if it's ever added can easily be tweaked to fit whichever role or archetype they deem necessary as long as it stills uses monster abilities in some form.