To the Devs: Communication is failing!

[Sephrick]

No it's entirely the fault of the community. If they can't resist pointless speculation and whining then how is it anyone's fault but their own?
If this community had proven itself mature and capable I could understand blaming SE for being needlessly opaque but I've been here since day 1 and this community has done nothing but whine and moan even when they got their way.
This community is like a spoiled, petulant child upset that their new toy isn't three new toys.
I can't believe SE even bothers to post because it's not like anything constructive is coming out of this forum.

It's not as if this is an established game and people are bickering minor details.

Case in point:

Back in August, Yoshida said they'd release the class change info when 1.19 went live so they could monitor player feedback to help determine their direction.

A month-and-a-half later, they release the information we're supposed to discuss in two parts and present the bulk of it stripped of some key information.

To the OP's point, if they want us to provide constructive feedback then they need to provide specific information. Not "LNC ABL X: Use TP to Absorb HP." that's not enough for us to go on. It's easy to make assumptions about how these abilities will work, but if we're assuming the wrong thing or our concerns ate answered by the abilities they didn't bother to show then our time spent departing in any capacity is wasted.

And that's how it's been, and will be as we get closer to 2.0 and the changes get more and more drastic. There's nothing wrong with asking SE to be more clear with the information they do provide. SE has come a long way , especially since the early days of XI. But XIV is a different matter altogether given that we don't know if the game we enjoy now will be the same game after any given patch until 2.0 sets certain aspects in stone.

[Altareon]

It's not as if this is an established game and people are bickering minor details.

Case in point:

Back in August, Yoshida said they'd release the class change info when 1.19 went live so they could monitor player feedback to help determine their direction.

A month-and-a-half later, they release the information we're supposed to discuss in two parts and present the bulk of it stripped of some key information.

To the OP's point, if they want us to provide constructive feedback then they need to provide specific information. Not "LNC ABL X: Use TP to Absorb HP." that's not enough for us to go on. It's easy to make assumptions about how these abilities will work, but if we're assuming the wrong thing or our concerns ate answered by the abilities they didn't bother to show then our time spent departing in any capacity is wasted.

And that's how it's been, and will be as we get closer to 2.0 and the changes get more and more drastic. There's nothing wrong with asking SE to be more clear with the information they do provide. SE has come a long way , especially since the early days of XI. But XIV is a different matter altogether given that we don't know if the game we enjoy now will be the same game after any given patch until 2.0 sets certain aspects in stone.

And yet the community has proven it can do little else than bicker about what color mounts should be. Why would any company intent on turning a profit ask this community what it should do with the game?
SE is an international multimillion dollar company and it got that way making video games. I think it understands a little better what goes into making a game that sells than people with My Little Pony in their signatures.
I'm not saying SE is perfect because this game is a mess currently but I don't think asking this board what they should do will help pick up the pieces in the slightest.
You yourself admit all this board can do is bicker about details so who cares what anyone has to say?
Do you really think SE posting their master plan for this game will prevent people from whining about chocobo breeding or catboys?

[DoctorMog]

And yet the community has proven it can do little else than bicker about what color mounts should be. Why would any company intent on turning a profit ask this community what it should do with the game?
SE is an international multimillion dollar company and it got that way making video games. I think it understands a little better what goes into making a game that sells than people with My Little Pony in their signatures.
I'm not saying SE is perfect because this game is a mess currently but I don't think asking this board what they should do will help pick up the pieces in the slightest.
You yourself admit all this board can do is bicker about details so who cares what anyone has to say?
Do you really think SE posting their master plan for this game will prevent people from whining about chocobo breeding or catboys?

Remind me why they have these boards again?

I'm guessing its because they didn't want us to discuss the game, give our opinions or offer suggestions.

Nope.

[Altareon]

Remind me why they have these boards again?

I'm guessing its because they didn't want us to discuss the game, give our opinions or offer suggestions.

Nope.

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

[DoctorMog]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

There are plenty of decisions the devs have been on the fence about that these boards have influenced.

While we don't make the final decision, I can say for 100% certainty that the devs read what we write and take it all into account.

So, in short, I disagree.

[Rutelor]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

Altareon, your replies seem well reasoned and intelligent enough to make me ponder one thing: If you yourself find the motivations behind these forums suspect, if you multi-million corporation is actually to blame for deceit, why are you complaining about the community complaints. And even more, why are you and your clairvoyance still roaming these pointless forums?

[Lucifer]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

If that is the case, what does it matter to you what we say? Either it matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't, let us continue our bickering. If it does, how about contributing instead of trying to persuade to me you're not a complete moron.

[PSxpert2011]

... This Byzantine discussion is precisely what I'm complaining about, and I blame the Developers and the moderators for failing to communicate the New Vision that ought to be replacing Tanaka's. ...

I am sure I speak for the vast majority of the community when I say we don't want a excessively streamlined game, that falls into the territory of the simplistic. The pull of the Final Fantasy universes has always been the complex interactions within a very deeply structured system of interacting forces. We, as players, are given the end of very entangled strings, and by pulling them, we slowly learn the effect they produce, and get to partially (very partially) control the forces of the world to our advantage. And the forces are part of a continuously shifting kaleidoscope that permanently plays with the influence of light, darkness, moon, weather, day and hour... You are kept constantly on your toes and your strategy has to change on a dime. That feeling is what brings us here, and we are afraid a good chunk of that is being taken away from hydaelyn. Perhaps it's not, but appearances are paramount. It seems the game is moving towards one in which the point is to gank, and gank fast without much thought. Maybe it's not, but again, that's what it feels like from the very succinct information you gave us.


R

I commented on how simplistic the game feels on some far, far distant thread before. It's hard to explain but not hard to miss. Isn't this the work of a game developing team or is it over company political matters. We should see this game not as a political tool to draw players in... it's should deliver challenge. It should be seen as a work of art imitating the creativity of the dev team with the ambition to present more than what FFxi was able to.

You know, I saw FFxi with a straight forward and linear objective which led everyone to follow and then meet in the middle. Not ignoring the quest and the low-level events that could've kept many busy with craft, selling, farm/gather, explore and do rank missions. What's holding FFxiv back?? We all seen the future to come with the FFXIV road map but will it hold up and why did it take this loooong??

FFxi was able to sell itself just on fan support only. Is this going to happen with FFxiv?

Is SE focusing too much time on "bells and whistles" before building up the core of the FFxiv world? It's built up from great graphics and good enough characters till now but nothing memorable. I don't think I'll be able to recall much experiences as I did back in the FFxi days (before they 'fixed' the game, oh gawd, going back to nostalgia) here on FFxiv.

[Sephrick]

And yet the community has proven it can do little else than bicker about what color mounts should be. Why would any company intent on turning a profit ask this community what it should do with the game?
SE is an international multimillion dollar company and it got that way making video games. I think it understands a little better what goes into making a game that sells than people with My Little Pony in their signatures.
I'm not saying SE is perfect because this game is a mess currently but I don't think asking this board what they should do will help pick up the pieces in the slightest.
You yourself admit all this board can do is bicker about details so who cares what anyone has to say?
Do you really think SE posting their master plan for this game will prevent people from whining about chocobo breeding or catboys?

The point of the forum is to discuss ideas and points of view. The topics which we discuss are entirely up to SE.

If SE gives us scraps of information then we're left to fill in the blanks. But just because I minority of posters will drag a moot point over 20 pages doesn't mean the rest of us aren't capable of having a fruitful debate when given the proper amount of information.

The water spell issue is a great example. SE told us the lists were it. 15 spells/abilities per class. So naturally the issue was raised as the elemental wheel is an important aspect. People want to know, what happens if there's no water spells?

SE then only exacerbated the issue by saying water was intentionally left off but is in the game and will be a part of CNJ.

Great, but how? And it doesn't answer the original question of what happens to the elemental wheel? So we have to fill in the blanks based on SE's history, which is varied.

It's human nature to want to communicate ideas to arrive at an understanding. This is why the bickering is mostly SE's fault. It's an assumption to make a point, but coming out and saying "Aquaviel is the Water spell cast by CNJ. It protects the recipient from a fixed amount of damage while causing damage each time an opponent attacks"* is a lot different than "We didn't tell you about water on purpose, CNJ casts it."

In the former we can discuss implications, uses and tactics around such a spell. With the former we have to guess which spell, if any on the list, while wondering how SE intentionally left something off what seemed like a complete list (given it met the criteria of 15 native abilities sans the 11 traits).

If we're here to talk, we'll talk tegardless. It's up to SE to provide us with substantive information if they want us to have a quality discussion. Otherwise we'll postulate and hyperbolize to fill in the blanks. It's human nature, not immaturity.

[normalforce]

To the OP's point, if they want us to provide constructive feedback then they need to provide specific information. Not "LNC ABL X: Use TP to Absorb HP." that's not enough for us to go on. It's easy to make assumptions about how these abilities will work, but if we're assuming the wrong thing or our concerns ate answered by the abilities they didn't bother to show then our time spent departing in any capacity is wasted.

I agree with this. We need HP/MP costs, recast timers, and even a rough idea of how often some of these additional effect will trigger if we are to have an informed discussion about these proposed changes. Otherwise we're just going at this blind until it drops and we can actually experience it for ourselves.