To the Devs: Communication is failing!

[normalforce]

To the OP's point, if they want us to provide constructive feedback then they need to provide specific information. Not "LNC ABL X: Use TP to Absorb HP." that's not enough for us to go on. It's easy to make assumptions about how these abilities will work, but if we're assuming the wrong thing or our concerns ate answered by the abilities they didn't bother to show then our time spent departing in any capacity is wasted.

I agree with this. We need HP/MP costs, recast timers, and even a rough idea of how often some of these additional effect will trigger if we are to have an informed discussion about these proposed changes. Otherwise we're just going at this blind until it drops and we can actually experience it for ourselves.

[Altareon]

Remind me why they have these boards again?

I'm guessing its because they didn't want us to discuss the game, give our opinions or offer suggestions.

Nope.

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

[DoctorMog]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

There are plenty of decisions the devs have been on the fence about that these boards have influenced.

While we don't make the final decision, I can say for 100% certainty that the devs read what we write and take it all into account.

So, in short, I disagree.

[Sole]

I agree with this. We need HP/MP costs, recast timers, and even a rough idea of how often some of these additional effect will trigger if we are to have an informed discussion about these proposed changes. Otherwise we're just going at this blind until it drops and we can actually experience it for ourselves.

What's so bad about waiting? Experiencing it for ourselves is the best way to really know what the changes mean. Personally, I think the development team has been unprecedentedly open compared to other companies in addressing the community and about moving forward. They're still a company at the end of the day and maybe they have their reasons for keeping things a little in the dark. Any company keeps their products and details under wraps, it doesn't help development giving out the details because the community isn't responsible for the details.

[Sephrick]

And yet the community has proven it can do little else than bicker about what color mounts should be. Why would any company intent on turning a profit ask this community what it should do with the game?
SE is an international multimillion dollar company and it got that way making video games. I think it understands a little better what goes into making a game that sells than people with My Little Pony in their signatures.
I'm not saying SE is perfect because this game is a mess currently but I don't think asking this board what they should do will help pick up the pieces in the slightest.
You yourself admit all this board can do is bicker about details so who cares what anyone has to say?
Do you really think SE posting their master plan for this game will prevent people from whining about chocobo breeding or catboys?

The point of the forum is to discuss ideas and points of view. The topics which we discuss are entirely up to SE.

If SE gives us scraps of information then we're left to fill in the blanks. But just because I minority of posters will drag a moot point over 20 pages doesn't mean the rest of us aren't capable of having a fruitful debate when given the proper amount of information.

The water spell issue is a great example. SE told us the lists were it. 15 spells/abilities per class. So naturally the issue was raised as the elemental wheel is an important aspect. People want to know, what happens if there's no water spells?

SE then only exacerbated the issue by saying water was intentionally left off but is in the game and will be a part of CNJ.

Great, but how? And it doesn't answer the original question of what happens to the elemental wheel? So we have to fill in the blanks based on SE's history, which is varied.

It's human nature to want to communicate ideas to arrive at an understanding. This is why the bickering is mostly SE's fault. It's an assumption to make a point, but coming out and saying "Aquaviel is the Water spell cast by CNJ. It protects the recipient from a fixed amount of damage while causing damage each time an opponent attacks"* is a lot different than "We didn't tell you about water on purpose, CNJ casts it."

In the former we can discuss implications, uses and tactics around such a spell. With the former we have to guess which spell, if any on the list, while wondering how SE intentionally left something off what seemed like a complete list (given it met the criteria of 15 native abilities sans the 11 traits).

If we're here to talk, we'll talk tegardless. It's up to SE to provide us with substantive information if they want us to have a quality discussion. Otherwise we'll postulate and hyperbolize to fill in the blanks. It's human nature, not immaturity.

[Renshi]

Well... can't answer about anything, neither give any suggestion, feedback or criticism. Just saying that this thread and its likes are the reasons on why I spend less time on the forums =)

[normalforce]

What's so bad about waiting? Experiencing it for ourselves is the best way to really know what the changes mean. Personally, I think the development team has been unprecedentedly open compared to other companies in addressing the community and about moving forward. They're still a company at the end of the day and maybe they have their reasons for keeping things a little in the dark. Any company keeps their products and details under wraps, it doesn't help development giving out the details because the community isn't responsible for the details.

Nothing is wrong with waiting, per se. The issue comes down to timing. If SE wants feedback now, before 1.20 drops, a little more information is needed to hold an informed discussion, otherwise it'll be mostly speculation. Hell, even with more information, it could still be a lot of speculation but more informed speculation.

However, I was under the distinct impression SE was looking for feedback of the new system prior to 1.20 so they wouldn't drop something on us that we all hated.

[Sole]

Nothing is wrong with waiting, per se. The issue comes down to timing. If SE wants feedback now, before 1.20 drops, a little more information is needed to hold an informed discussion, otherwise it'll be mostly speculation. Hell, even with more information, it could still be a lot of speculation but more informed speculation.

However, I was under the distinct impression SE was looking for feedback of the new system prior to 1.20 so they wouldn't drop something on us that we all hated.

If I had to guess why they released any info at all is to judge the general reaction and as a courtesy to the community, that way they can respond to the criticism. Not so much that they can make changes based on our initial response. None of us can really offer any constructive criticism because we haven't tried anything yet. Obviously, when these changes are released and the community feels like "such and such" isn't working then the feedback is useful. Complaining about xx or why yy info hasn't been released is silly when one doesn't know what xx and yy even means in the end.

[Rutelor]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

Altareon, your replies seem well reasoned and intelligent enough to make me ponder one thing: If you yourself find the motivations behind these forums suspect, if you multi-million corporation is actually to blame for deceit, why are you complaining about the community complaints. And even more, why are you and your clairvoyance still roaming these pointless forums?

[Lucifer]

I'm guessing they gave you the boards so you have the illusion of input. Everyone can make their little posts about mount color and feel like they had a hand in making the game. It's a community building thing but don't delude yourself into thinking you actually have a say in the matter.
At the end of the day SE will do what's good for SE.

If that is the case, what does it matter to you what we say? Either it matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't, let us continue our bickering. If it does, how about contributing instead of trying to persuade to me you're not a complete moron.