To Yoshida-san - Poor Excuse for Continuing Horrible Time Sink Loot System from Ifrit

[Jinko]

I don't want to see another need/greed/pas sytem like so many other MMO's have. The system in FFXI worked. Ninja-lotting was not a problem.

I really can't believe that they honestly think that /random and compromise with individual treasure drops is better than the small percentage risk of ninja-lotting. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

It would be really easy to eliminate ninja lotting. All they would have to do is display the timer that indicates how long party members are allowed to lot on treasure items. If someone lots in the last 5 or 10 seconds, the party leader should be presented with the option to accept or reject the late lot. Certainly more people would trust the party leader over the whole group.

I hope that they reconsider this bad idea and reject the need/greed model. For the love of the 12, we don't need another WoW.


Need and greed really only worked in MMO's where you had one occupation. It doesn't work in FFXI.

Clever so how do you suggest they have loot work when they add content finder ? whos to say you will even know the party leader ?

Yes you can say you don't want that either but too bad it looks like that decision has been made.

P.s. the loot system in 11 works pretty much like a need before greed system expect its just need and you have to open a box to roll. (do you even know how need before greed works ?)

Also a need before greed system can work in both 11 and 14, it would just take into consideration that the people needing the item have the job at the same level or above that of the item being rolled on, anyone who didn't meet those requirements would only have the option to greed.

Ie. Ifrit's Cane drops only people who have CON 50 can roll need everyone else has to roll greed or pass.

It only makes sense that people who have the job at 50 would have priority on the item anyway.

[Zoltan]

Clever so how do you suggest they have loot work when they add content finder ? whos to say you will even know the party leader ?

Yes you can say you don't want that either but too bad it looks like that decision has been made.

P.s. the loot system in 11 works pretty much like a need before greed system expect its just need and you have to open a box to roll. (do you even know how need before greed works ?)

Also a need before greed system can work in both 11 and 14, it would just take into consideration that the people needing the item have the job at the same level or above that of the item being rolled on, anyone who didn't meet those requirements would only have the option to greed.

Ie. Ifrit's Cane drops only people who have CON 50 can roll need everyone else has to roll greed or pass.

It only makes sense that people who have the job at 50 would have priority on the item anyway.

First of all, please do not attempt to insult someone by questioning if they understand how need/greed works.

Secondly, it would work fine with dungeon finder. It may not be perfect, I was simply suggesting that they could build in safeguards to combat any anticipated problem with ninja-lotting.

Did you miss the part where I said that the party leader would have the ability to accept or reject any late lot in the last 5-10 seconds? Surely that would eliminate people's ability to ninja lot loot. It does not matter whether you knew them or not unless they were the ninja lotter. Perhaps party leaders would be prevented from lotting in the last 10 seconds.

My main objection to the "Need" system being based upon a job that you are currently using is not applicable to Final Fantasy because there are multiple jobs. Should you be prevented from obtaining a level 40 weapon for your PUG because it's currently level 39? Should you be prevented from obtaining a level 50 Paladin shield because you haven't completed the quest yet, although all of your other jobs are capped?

[Jinko]

My main objection to the "Need" system being based upon a job that you are currently using is not applicable to Final Fantasy because there are multiple jobs.

This is why it doesn't have to work that way, the system can easily check to see if you have a job high enough to use the item.

Should you be prevented from obtaining a level 40 weapon for your PUG because it's currently level 39? Should you be prevented from obtaining a level 50 Paladin shield because you haven't completed the quest yet, although all of your other jobs are capped?

No you shouldn't be prevented, but if you are 39 and the weapon is 40 and someone else is 41 the person who is 41 should get priority as he can use it imidiately.

Hence why I suggested the 41 would get the option to need, greed and pass, the 39 would get the choice to greed and pass.

They could even design the system to have a +5 tolerance, but i still think that someone who can use it straight away should have more priority.

There is nothing stopping them adding master loot anyway, WoW has a lot of different loot choices, including Master Loot and many addons which deal with DKP and other stuff to sort loot into the correct persons hands.

[Alexandrious]

I once had D.ring dropped in my lap and it was the 4th only one on the server, they were too busy arguing who should get it. They joked I ninjered it and awarded me an Aegis a month later.

Is that bad? >.>

[zaviermhigo]

I like drop to loot, and /random for it. So if it drops in my loot and 4 people want the item, its hard to pick which one is more deserving of the item. The /random would help that a lot. I don't get why anyone would just want the item to drop to the loot alone, if 1 person wants the item that's fine, and if you operate on dkp that's fine too. but a lot of steer clear of things like dkp, just because it leads to "ls leader hasn't been here for 3 events, but....he has the most points -.-" "uh yeah, he organizes all the events you do, stfu". So yeah it makes the who gets what system harder, but typically those who want the gear one or two relinquish cause they figure the person with the gimpest gear should get it, we typically follow that, unless its your last piece to complete a set, thats understandable too.

[Zoltan]

I like drop to loot, and /random for it. So if it drops in my loot and 4 people want the item, its hard to pick which one is more deserving of the item. The /random would help that a lot. I don't get why anyone would just want the item to drop to the loot alone, if 1 person wants the item that's fine, and if you operate on dkp that's fine too. but a lot of steer clear of things like dkp, just because it leads to "ls leader hasn't been here for 3 events, but....he has the most points -.-" "uh yeah, he organizes all the events you do, stfu". So yeah it makes the who gets what system harder, but typically those who want the gear one or two relinquish cause they figure the person with the gimpest gear should get it, we typically follow that, unless its your last piece to complete a set, thats understandable too.

Holy wall of text.

Can't you understnd that when you are doing an event with a group, that you might not want to stop and have them near you to trade that item to?

It's a broken system now. They have admitted that. I'm not even talking about linkshells or engame.

[Renshi]

I would see a system where if you have the weapon in the inventory, it goes into your loot list, and you can share it with people around ya until you get out of the Bowl of Embers. The current (1.20) idea is fine, with this touch it could be even more efficient =)

[Darkvalkyr]

Yeah. Coming from FFXI with their individual loot list system for their latest endgame, I hope they reconsider this. It's killed off any interest for me to do the events beyond the fun of fighting the NMs because I know that we'll see items we want go to someone who can't use it many times.

We can treat that as 'weapon never dropped' but the fact that it's RIGHT THERE in your allies' hands is like a kick to the underside.

This system kills any sense of being friendly to your friends or allies and linkshells out to help each other get stuff will be stomped, stabbed and gagged.

And, as far as Need/Greed goes it's no different from the XI lot system. Anyone can click Need, no matter their level or class unless I've seriously been playing a different game. I've accidentally needed on things I can never equip on DC:UO because of my class. Who's to say Need/Greed will prevent a level 39 PGL in content, 28 CON outside from needing a 30 CON staff?

[Jeeves]

I just want to say a little story about me and ifrit. Now jeeves here isn't my main, my main has 6/7 classes at 50 with cnj being the odd man out. Mrd is my love and joy in this game and was my very first 50, it's the class I go to whenever I do anything in game. I love it's aoe and I love it's ability to be a main tank when decked out correctly.

So when I saw the ifrit axe I nearly wept with joy at how awesome a weapon it was and it became my all consuming goal just to get this one weapon. Yet after 70ish+ fights with ifrit do I have this amazing axe....no I do not. I have 3 weapons all of which I didn't want and have no plans to ever really use cause I never play on those classes (pug, arc, thm).

Yet in my ls all of the other mrds seemed to get this amazing axe, I don't fault any of them for getting it and feel a sense of joy for them cause they were there fighting ifrit day after day kill after kill and had earned it. Yet me who was also there received weps I have no desire to use.

The final straw for me was when another 50 mrd who had never done the fight hadn't shed the blood sweat and tears defeating ifrit multiple times and creating stacks of dark matter in the process received the axe ON THE FIRST FIGHT! Which just confirmed yet again to me that this system is nothing more then a method that rewards the lucky or those who can spend hours/days/weeks farming ifrit creating one of the worst and most demoralizing time sinks in game.

Shortly after that I did a few more fights with ifrit praying and hoping (but honestly no longer caring) I would finally receive my glorious axe and once I did I knew I wouldn't care anymore about this horrible drop system and could just enjoy the fight itself and anything past that would be gravy. But on my last day of fighting what did I get from this chest? Another thm wep and even more dark matter.

I can honestly say that I stopped playing the game simply because of this system, and now to hear yoshi giving an excuse as idiotic as "Stopping Ninja Looters" and to give us a bandage grind method to receive the item we want while still keeping the slim chance of just getting the weapon from the chest anyways..... I feel as though I have been slapped in the face yet again by this game.

Why is it such a pain to just have a simple system where the chest has a slim chance to drop only one weapon a fight but goes into the loot list to allow it to be given to the people who honestly desire and can use said weapon? If all future primal fights continue with this method even with the grind option I really do not see myself playing up until 2.0 cause why would I want to keep bashing my head against a wall praying and hoping I get the wep I want or get enough tokens to get my own wep (which we don't know how many or how rare those drops will be yet)?

One final thing I want to say, we don't need yoshi or his team trying to stop ninja looters. Pure and simple if a person is shown to be a ninja looter there name becomes scum in my book and all my friends books and more then likely on the whole server. Especially since this is a game where your main character is someone that you've put hours and hours of time into and just recreating a new char for the sole purpose of avoiding all the hate coming towards you isn't a viable option.

[Kiara]

I just want to say a little story about me and ifrit. Now jeeves here isn't my main, my main has 6/7 classes at 50 with cnj being the odd man out. Mrd is my love and joy in this game and was my very first 50, it's the class I go to whenever I do anything in game. I love it's aoe and I love it's ability to be a main tank when decked out correctly.

So when I saw the ifrit axe I nearly wept with joy at how awesome a weapon it was and it became my all consuming goal just to get this one weapon. Yet after 70ish+ fights with ifrit do I have this amazing axe....no I do not. I have 3 weapons all of which I didn't want and have no plans to ever really use cause I never play on those classes (pug, arc, thm).

Yet in my ls all of the other mrds seemed to get this amazing axe, I don't fault any of them for getting it and feel a sense of joy for them cause they were there fighting ifrit day after day kill after kill and had earned it. Yet me who was also there received weps I have no desire to use.

The final straw for me was when another 50 mrd who had never done the fight hadn't shed the blood sweat and tears defeating ifrit multiple times and creating stacks of dark matter in the process received the axe ON THE FIRST FIGHT! Which just confirmed yet again to me that this system is nothing more then a method that rewards the lucky or those who can spend hours/days/weeks farming ifrit creating one of the worst and most demoralizing time sinks in game.

Shortly after that I did a few more fights with ifrit praying and hoping (but honestly no longer caring) I would finally receive my glorious axe and once I did I knew I wouldn't care anymore about this horrible drop system and could just enjoy the fight itself and anything past that would be gravy. But on my last day of fighting what did I get from this chest? Another thm wep and even more dark matter.

I can honestly say that I stopped playing the game simply because of this system, and now to hear yoshi giving an excuse as idiotic as "Stopping Ninja Looters" and to give us a bandage grind method to receive the item we want while still keeping the slim chance of just getting the weapon from the chest anyways..... I feel as though I have been slapped in the face yet again by this game.

Why is it such a pain to just have a simple system where the chest has a slim chance to drop only one weapon a fight but goes into the loot list to allow it to be given to the people who honestly desire and can use said weapon? If all future primal fights continue with this method even with the grind option I really do not see myself playing up until 2.0 cause why would I want to keep bashing my head against a wall praying and hoping I get the wep I want or get enough tokens to get my own wep (which we don't know how many or how rare those drops will be yet)?

One final thing I want to say, we don't need yoshi or his team trying to stop ninja looters. Pure and simple if a person is shown to be a ninja looter there name becomes scum in my book and all my friends books and more then likely on the whole server. Especially since this is a game where your main character is someone that you've put hours and hours of time into and just recreating a new char for the sole purpose of avoiding all the hate coming towards you isn't a viable option.

Hi Jeeves,

I empathize with you. There have been a few people I know that have quit or given up fighting Ifrit because of this wretched Time Sink.

It's very clear that Yoshida-san and team, while busy making FF XIV Version 2.0, don't have enough resources to generate enough content to keep us busy.

So while delivering an interesting Ifrit Primal Fight, some poor excuse for a Designer decided that the best way to stretch out the content that they gave us for 1.19 (Ifrit and Beastmen Strongholds) was to make this stupid Loot System that dumps items directly into your inventory.

Does it keep some players continually playing and trying for their desired weapon? Yes.

And they probably are playing longer than if the Loot System was like Dzemael, but ultimately Yoshida-san should've *given us the choice*. Give the Players the choice if they want to keep playing or do other things. Even if we finished getting Ifrit Weapons that we wanted (with the Normal Loot System before 1.19 that actually *worked* just fine), people could try to farm HQ Mats for HQ Weapons and Armor, or try for Double, Triple, Quadruple Meld Materia.

But at least it's our choice to keep busy or do things we want to.

This poor excuse to stretch Game Content has angered more players and driven away more people than any other End Game Content Yoshida-san has provided so far.

Yoshida-san, you're ruining the good will you've been building up until now.

I hope you reconsider.