Let's say we'd get more skills - How would you handle them?

[Exidrial]

We will get new skills at some point. Classes would become boring for veterans if they wouldn't get any new toys to play with but.... how the hell would you manage them?

I main DRK, got a PLD @60 and a BRD@59.
All 3 classes have 3 hotbars that are filled with skills. 33 of the 36 skill slots are bound to keyboard buttons.
I have no idea what buttons I'd bind new skills to without making me play some kind of twister on the keyboard.


Those are my skillbinds:
1,2,3,4,ctrl+E,^Q,F,C,Q,E,R,T,^E,^R,^T,^V,^X,^C,V,^G,ctrl+G,ctrl+Q,alt+Q,MMB,ctrl+c,ctrl+r,^F,zirkumflex,G,Shift+4,Shift+1,Shift+2,Shift+3,

I mean yeah I could work with alt more but alt is kind of uncomfortable to hit because I'd have to hit it with my thumb which in my opinion isn't nearly as comfortable as ctrl or shift(I prefer letting my thumb rest on the spacebar). Edit: DUH! That's it! Get rid of jump and instead rebind spacebar as another modificator key. GENIUS. Problem solved lol.

Would you people even WANT new skills? Some skills are pretty boring, like DRK for example you just hit Reprisal, plunge and Low Blow whenever they proc (except for rare ocassions in which you want to interrupt a cast with low blow) with some skills just being almost completely useless (Dark Dance for example).

Ahhh dunno. I was just thinking a bit. Should we get any more skills I'd need a 4th skillbar.....eeehhhh. So much clutter. Well definately better than just having like 5 skills *cough* TSW,GW2,TESO *cough*

[Gravton]

Yeah button bloat is an issue but I think SE is working on it. You didn't even mention the PvP skills and new chat macros. I'd like to think SE would improve/modify over getting outright new ones. Like traits.

[Exidrial]

I don't think they'll add many more skills tbh simply because they have to make sure all those skills fit on a controller layout.

Edit: Didn't know you had as much space on the controller layout as you do. --

[Martin_Arcainess]

If your just hitting your OGCD when ever they proc your playing DRK wrong well not fully wrong but it isn't always the best idea to pop OGCD's just because you can pop them.

TB in coming? ok I'll save Reprisal for it.

Mob needs to be stuned? Someone else do my low blow is on CD.

Tilts in coming, ahhh I've fallen off the edge! If only I had Plunge on CD so I could have lived.

But yeah sometimes you got think more of the skill to fully use it.

Also time your BW and OGCD's. If your Plunge is ready but you 3 seconds left on your Blood weapon then wait till it's ready, pop BW then plunge you'll get extra MP because of that.

Too many people just pop OGCD's just because there ready


But on a side note, post a screen shot of your HUD layout maybe I can help?

I don't think they'll add many more skills tbh simply because they have to make sure all those skills fit on a controller layout.

eh, I've still got loads of space left on my controller. Could easily fit in another 10 skills.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean yeah I could work with alt more but alt is kind of uncomfortable to hit because I'd have to hit it with my thumb which in my opinion isn't nearly as comfortable as ctrl or shift(I prefer letting my thumb rest on the spacebar). Edit: DUH! That's it! Get rid of jump and instead rebind spacebar as another modificator key. GENIUS. Problem solved lol.

Technically you can just use a button registry swapper to turn Caps into an Alt, so you have it right in line with the others. It just takes a little while to get used to having your pinky that high. Personally, I used alt just as a pinky trigger even before swapping Caps over to it; though the hand position demand you move only with your mouse for the split second, Alt-S, D, F, G, X, C, V, B, etc. are really quite comfortable. Now, with Caps replaced, I can even comfortably Alt (Caps)- F1, F2, F3, F4, and so forth. Adjusting the key in-game only, though, is unprecedented as far as I'm aware, and I don't expect SE would be the first to allow for something like that.

Especially for us 1.x veterans, hailing from a jump-less state of the game, Space has always seemed like a vast area of keyboard space to spend on such little value. At least, that was the case until we swapped to character-based camera and auto-face target, at which point jumping became immensely important for maintaining attackable facing on moving targets for melee, and maintaining direction of movement while using skills and maintaining auto-attack uptime on ranged. Even then, though, I'd hear comments like "couldn't we have just fixed auto-face targeting and made this a more impactful key, such as for a dynamic (cover, grouping, displacement, etc.) system?"

What I really wish they'd do is copy the lingering mod states for keys that have multiple mod or unmodded states, such as Q, Shift-Q, and Ctrl-Q. In most other MMOs, if you hit Q to strafe, hitting Shift wouldn't stop your strafe outright in order to perform the Shift-Q function; instead, you'd need to hit Q again. This allows you then, to strafe about using Q and E while hitting other Shift-modified keys. To put it another way, it doesn't append the mod state to keys already being pressed, or only works in the order mod->key, never key->mod. Paired with jumping to prevent stopping or change of direction, that simple difference can open up a variety of keys that would otherwise be too clunky to use (such as, again, by stopping strafing movement if you attempt to use any other mod form of your strafe keys). I would love for XIV to allow for either version, by player choice.

Another handy bit would be to simply allow for multiple non-simultaneous functions for the same key, and/or to allow a couple additional states / control schemes. For instance, if a specific function is only available when in full-screen menus (controller), or when mounted, why would it necessarily need to be a different key from what you use when in typical combat? For instance, let's say there's a raider who wants to make the most of his pre-modified keyboard space, and sees keyboard-turning as useless for combat so he removes those two keys. But, when he's just traveling about for hunts, or whatnot, he'd really like those keys back so he can fly lazily with just his right or left hand. This could be solved in either or both of two ways: you allow for a different control scheme for (flying/ground/all) mounts, and assign turning, rather than strafing, to Q and E or A and D, and/or you allow for another mod-state via tied camera and movement (e.g. by default, when LMB and RMB are both pressed, or MMB is held). Now you have the best of both worlds. Similarly, allow for multiple abilities to be assigned to the same slot if they cannot be simultaneously available. The one currently available will be shown. This could cover skills like Wide Volley vs. Quick Nock, Fell Cleave vs. Inner Beast, Decimate vs. Steel Cyclone, Fang and Claw vs. Wheeling Thrust, and even Defiance vs. Deliverance (simply toggling between the two). That small adjustment should save you a slot for Bard, Machinist, and Dragoon, and 3 for Warrior.

I don't play with a controller, save for maybe once a year just to review how it's supposed to feel, so I can't offer much in suggestions on that side. I just hope we'd be able to keep all combat keys within 2 hotbars (24 binds), including LB, Sprint, and core pet macros/abilities. All I can maybe hope for in terms of their UI or control schemes is that we might be able to reverse the way the mod and main keys work, e.g. entering a new set by hitting O, and then using its abilities via LB, LT, LS, RB, RT, RS, or to change over only half a set or so (just the right or left).

Finally, a couple general QoL changes for setup, to improve intuitiveness of making a UI, though not combating button-bloat exactly:

• An optional "Cooldown" bar, similar to a buff or debuff bar, that shows which skills are on cooldown, and for how long. This would largely forgo the need to create any additional bars on controller; if it's not on the cooldown bar, you're ready to go. Of course, additional sorting and ordering, or the use of a slider sort, would be helpful thereafter.
• Allow for keys to be more easily be bound directly to the slots shown on screen. For example, typing /keybind or hitting its shortcut would allow m&kb players to simply hover their mouse over whatever skill slot they wanted to adjust on screen and input the key they want assigned to it, while controller players would be directed to a sub-interface that would allow them to easily adjust their key positions and mod keys on screen, rather than solely through the keybind menu. Alternatively, either can bind skills directly from their Actions and Traits menu, such that if the skill shows up multiple times on your bars, so too does its bind.

[Zojha]

Well, I'd just cram them into a new hotbar and try to get used to it?

I've long given up on keybinds anyway, so it's just a matter of developing the muscle memory.

That said: I'm not sure I'd really "enjoy" more skills. I've got enough buttons to press, really. Though as ninja, they can add a lot of skills simply by giving the redundant mudra combinations their own ninjutsu and adding a fourth mudra. That'd be like 12 new skills while only adding a single button. That'd probably set me for an expansion or two >_>

[Exidrial]

If your just hitting your OGCD when ever they proc your playing DRK wrong well not fully wrong but it isn't always the best idea to pop OGCD's just because you can pop them.

TB in coming? ok I'll save Reprisal for it.

Mob needs to be stuned? Someone else do my low blow is on CD.

Tilts in coming, ahhh I've fallen off the edge! If only I had Plunge on CD so I could have lived.

But yeah sometimes you got think more of the skill to fully use it.

Also time your BW and OGCD's. If your Plunge is ready but you 3 seconds left on your Blood weapon then wait till it's ready, pop BW then plunge you'll get extra MP because of that.

Too many people just pop OGCD's just because there ready


But on a side note, post a screen shot of your HUD layout maybe I can help?




eh, I've still got loads of space left on my controller. Could easily fit in another 10 skills.

Really? I don't play with controller but I thought space was somewhat tight.

The DRK OGCDs can be situational. Most of the time you can just hit the OGCDs without having to worry about consequences.
There are almost no attacks in the game that are worth interrupting, plunge is only a saver if you screw up. Don't screw up. Plunge MIGHT be a minor DPS increase if you use it as a gap closer after a boss has pushed you away but you'd probably be better off just using it whenever it's ready instead of waiting for the boss to do its push.

[Atoli]

In a recent interview about 4.0, Yoshi-P said we won't be having more skills to use.
While we will get new skills, others we had so far will go and the amount of skills you need at 70 will be about the same as now.

I doubt that will be much different come 5.0 and so on either.

[Exidrial]

In a recent interview about 4.0, Yoshi-P said we won't be having more skills to use.
While we will get new skills, others we had so far will go and the amount of skills you need at 70 will be about the same as now.

I doubt that will be much different come 5.0 and so on either.

It definately will be interesting to see how they will handle the whole skill system in the future. For people like us that have been playing a class for a while it's not too hard to get used to a few new skills each cap but imagine people who just start out with a class.
I hope they won't change skills too much each level cap as well. Small changes in gameplay can take a while for some people to get used to. On my BRD for example I keep forgetting to use Iron Jaws instead of the DoTs because I'm so used to not having the skill available (I'm not playing BRD too much).

But how will you keep classes exciting and fun in the long run? I'm confident in SE, they'll figure it out.

[Atoli]

Yeah I think the gameplay of a class changing can be very worrying as well, even if the skill bloat doesn't increase.
With HW, I personally found the changes all to be enjoyable and enganging, but we'll see where it goes in the future.

As for how to handle skills - your skillbinds would make me crazy xD
I just have my main rotation on 1-´ (the numbers row, German keyboard) as well as Ctrl + 1-´, where I actually use my thumb to press Crtl (so I guess using Alt would actually make it easier..?xD).
I play with both hands though, so hitting Crtl + 5 and upwards can be done with the right hand.
The third hotbar is just stances, rarely-used OGC abilities and skills I just need for leveling roulette because they get replaced on higher level (like on WHM, Stone I and II) as well as PvP abilities, and I just click them with the mouse in the rare occasion that I need them.
Even if we got more skills, that set-up wouldn't change, although if the active main rotation skills increased, I'd bind the third hotbar to Alt + 1-´, and add a fourth one for the rarely-used clickable skills^^