End Game version of 4 man Dungeons(mid-core content)

[Aerish]

isn't end game dung hard enough for new players with not much equip/learning new class ?

[Sylvain]

isn't end game dung hard enough for new players with not much equip/learning new class ?

Yes, but the focus isn't the same. the Normal end game dungeon is here to help gear the player for raids.

What is requested here, is a different kind of "true" end game. Less difficult than 8man, but nonetheless challenging.
This game (and so many other mmorpg unfortunately) has a great variety of dungeon but as patches goes on, most of them become legacy and simple leveling content.

It is a shame that so many great dungeon from FF are only explored through leveling. Especially the one from heavensward. And most of them have actually interesting boss mechanic that could be challenging if tuned properly for high level.

It would also be refreshing to have a new weekly challenge in the form of a 4man. Because, after 5-6 weeks into a patch, when you got your new gear, the game feels stall (which is normal). So a weekly challenge by using something totally unexploited, dungeon (the thing you do once when you level and barely ever revisit when doing a roulette) would be welcome

[Andoriel]

Sylvain, are you saying there are no signs of an impending attack by mobs in WoW's mythical dungeons? If so then I would speculate that there is a small percentage of the player base that does them on a regular bases. For FFXIV I would apply the same reasoning, small percentage of the player base would run them regularly. Side question: Do players feel they don't need CC in dungeons? Seems like I sometimes run into players that think so. Feel very disappointed.

[OoglieBooglie]

Crowd control is useless at higher levels because the mobs just simply resist every single crowd control thing. Silence, stun, and pacification are probably the only thing you can do in terms of stopping the enemy at higher levels. Sleep is pretty useful in case of screw-ups at lower level dungeons though. Sleep also works on SOME mobs all the way up to floor 189 at least in palace of the dead. It might have worked on one or two mobs after that, but i don't remember.

[Deliciou5]

Crowd control is useless at higher levels because the mobs just simply resist every single crowd control thing. Silence, stun, and pacification are probably the only thing you can do in terms of stopping the enemy at higher levels. Sleep is pretty useful in case of screw-ups at lower level dungeons though. Sleep also works on SOME mobs all the way up to floor 189 at least in palace of the dead. It might have worked on one or two mobs after that, but i don't remember.

I am sure they wouldn't make most mobs immune to CC in content where they are suppose to use it and/or re balance the game to include it more.

[Sylvain]

Sylvain, are you saying there are no signs of an impending attack by mobs in WoW's mythical dungeons?

no no, there is, I'm saying that there's a difference between the monster having a specific animation (even if it's super duper obvious) and puting a ginormous red mark on the ground telling you to GTFO.
I'm currently leveling various job and I've been through all Heavensward leveling dungeon many many time. I can see that player willingly don't ignore aoe and most of the time do their best to dodge. I also noticed that every aoe without the assistance of ground telegraph isn't dodged the vast majority of the time. The Aery is a great example. After the second boss, there's a dragon that has both a cleave an fireball that are clearly announced through animation. Most tank didn't dodge only these two skill from that single mob in the entire dungeon. They dodged absolutely everything else though. Same goes for NidHogg fireball which more often than not at least land on the player even though it is easily dodgable by simply looking at where nidhog face.

So here is my point, the ground telegraph makes everything much easier since, instead of actually paying attention to your surrounding and the monster's movement and animation, you lonly have to look for red mark on the ground.

If so then I would speculate that there is a small percentage of the player base that does them on a regular bases.

I'm not sure to understand what you're refering to here.

Side question: Do players feel they don't need CC in dungeons? Seems like I sometimes run into players that think so. Feel very disappointed.

Imo, CC as a whole must either be part of the game or not. Wow took the direction of making, for the beginning at least, a very important mechanic that is bordeline mandatory if your party don't have enough gear. FF made it 100% optional as only 2 job can effectively CC.
On a side note, I have the feeling that adding a mechanic like crowd control before pull, like in WoW, on the second expansion wouldn't be well received. There are plenty of other things that need to be adressed right now, and CC isn't an urgent one imo.

[Xyno]

Good idea. Would be nice to see this in the game

[Genaxx]

isn't end game dung hard enough for new players with not much equip/learning new class ?

If your playing end game dungeons you will have the required equipment and should not be learning your class.