Worst Outcome Possible

[Lucifer]

Lucifer, it's ok to say, "I may be wrong about this whole thing. I'm just upset about the changes to the class I like." It is not necessary to use words without knowing the definition, then back-pedal when it is pointed out. You don't have to hypothesize hyperbolically about future changes. I think we all understand that you are not happy with the changes, but that doesn't mean the changes are bad.

I understand that you are being a bit tongue in cheek here, but I think it illustrates that you don't fully understand the intent of the changes. I would encourage you to calm down a bit and give the new system a try, because I think that you have the wrong impression of how it is designed to work... either all of this or you are seriously grasping for straws.

Don't patronize me. The statement almost seems eschewed as to what it is trying to imply. Why haven't the moderators clarified their statement if so many of us are assuming the wrong thing?

[TinnySnips]

Lucifer, I think most of us seek a system with depth. Do not make the mistake of assuming that a simple system is a shallow system. The proposed changes will simplify things, while adding depth. The current system offers no depth. There is no real synergy to any of the abilities. We are being shown a list of abilities which allow for meaningful skill interactions in solo play (and in groups), and unique classes to increase the value each class adds to a party.

[TinnySnips]

Oh, and one other thing Luci, I like debuffs too! I don't think anybody wants debuffs gone, but it is temporary (even if it takes a year, which I hope it does not). I would just rather see a class focused primarily on them, and I would like if there were just a handful of very useful debuffs, so there would be a reason to use them in most situations. As it stands, they are highly situational and rarely used in meaningful encounters.

If you want to start a thread asking the Devs to bring the debuff class to the game sooner rather than later, then I will be in that thread, on your side. If you are going to say that we need to keep the debuffs we have and that this class change is terrible because it lacks them... then I am against you, because our current stock of debuffs is terrible. I want abilities that I will use, not abilities to fill spots because, "Hey, I have 64 ability points, why not?"

[Lucifer]

I am not against change. I am against removing an aspect of RPG's that further deconstructs it.

I am aware how utterly useless they are, but to go as far as removing them? That is worrisome.

[grandm]

alot of ppl say debuffs were pretty much broken anyway and nobody used them, you woud think if they made a debuff mage, going to the trouble of making a class revolve around them, then when they come back they will work better

a few assumption in there i know, just a thought tho

[Alerith]

Hey man. If you don't like caster, that's your choice. A lot of us really love it.

I am not taking a jab at casters by any means. As a tank, I rely on them and them on me for the sake of victory.

What I'm saying is that you have this view that moving and positioning isn't tactical, but standing in place and casting isn't really either. You could even argue that mages still need to move as well to keep out of range of certain attacks while doing their casting and it's the exact same argument.

[TinnySnips]

Luci (btw, this is my new nickname for you, I say it with love), rebuilding the foundation while leaving a broken cornerstone would be far more worrisome. Debuffs were useless and broken, and there are only 2 mage classes. It is far quicker to build and balance a nuking ability set than it is to build and balance a debuffing ability set. Given the current situation, there was no real choice. They needed to rebuild the classes now, then implement jobs, then add a debuffing class after it has underwent sufficient balancing. They cannot risk a brand new ability list and job system in 6 months... they need it released soon so the players can test it, and it can be tweaked into a well-oiled machine in time for 2.0.

To recap: your chief complaint seems to be the lack of debuffs. The reason there will be no debuffs is that there are not enough mage classes, which Yoshi-P has acknowledged and is addressing. You'll have my agreement (and my axe) if you state that a debuffing class needs to be made a higher priority, but claiming that they are ruining combat by sidelining a broken mechanic until it is again ready for prime time? That's just an overreaction.

[Crunkjuice]

yea like the guy above said we have to beta test these till 2.0 come out so they don't fuck anything up for the real game.

[lenn1]

Come on stupid. Positioning is tactical? Are we in the front lines of Omaha beach?? There is nothing tactical about having to stand in front of or behind a mob. Timing I'll take, but giving the benefit of an added debuff on top of some extra damage?

I want to gear myself up in proper gear so I my spells don't miss. Then I want to time a stun, preventing a powerful aoe from possibly killing my party. I want people to be like "Let's get Lucifer for this fight. He has the proper gear and can time stun very well"

What we have instead is combo spaaaaaaammmmmmm. Your stun MIGHT go off when you combo spaaaaaaaammmmm. Thunder has a chance to stun! THUNDER SPAAAAAAAAAM.

Stupid.

So what stun are you using now that this new patch is taking away?

[Lucifer]

So what stun are you using now that this new patch is taking away?

Go be stupid elsewhere.
Holy hell...