Should the ToS be updated to allow botting?

[Lone-wolfe-02]

OP if you think they aren't punished then why not go ahead and use them yourself?, you clearly want to use them so what's stopping you.

[Vidu]

...can someone explain to me btw how botting gets people their A12S kills? OP keeps brining that up (how botters are having the A12-mount) but I fail to see the connection? Is he assuming that they bought their kills? With gil earned by using bots? That sounds extremly ridicolous... but I cant see how using a bot in that fight would be any good..

[TiaHariberux3]

...can someone explain to me btw how botting gets people their A12S kills? OP keeps brining that up (how botters are having the A12-mount) but I fail to see the connection? Is he assuming that they bought their kills? With gil earned by using bots? That sounds extremly ridicolous... but I cant see how using a bot in that fight would be any good..

Well extremely ridiculous? Not really there are ppl who bot gil to buy runs but maybe OP means the "no clip" etc stuff that are included in most bots I can remember players used it in pvp to be under the ground and just attack while arent being able to be attacked by others.

[Vnolan]

Can you prove they're botting? Why do you think they're botting? Are they actually using speed hacks, and teleporting across the map like the gathering bots/BLM and ARC bots do? Or are they just silent, and that's why you equate them to using a botting service? Genuine questions here.

The players are all lv60 gatherers in ironworks. They zone in near the aetheryte and perform some conversions. Regardless of where they are in reference to the aetheryte when they've zoned in, they will always move on foot to the same location before mounting up and flying away. Based on where they load in, I can even tell you if they'll use sprint before moving. It is entirely possible that a dozen different players all perform the same actions, including moving to the same location, with no deviation whatsoever from the script, but it's much, much more likely that they're bots. Above info aside, I've witnessed one in the group FATE botting in N Thanalan and I reported one a while back for using a gathering bot which was much more obvious.

Both. They were using speed hacks and they were using hacks to disappear and attack mobs from underground. I only report bots once.

I suspected some hacking was involved. Popular opinion seems to be that nothing is done when they are simply automating gameplay.

And a simple Lodestone search can answer if they were banned. If you reported them two months ago while they were around level 45/50, and you see on their Lodestone profile that the bot is level 45/50 still, probably safe to assume they were banned. I'm not obsessed enough to check every day, so whether it was a day, five days, ten days, twenty, etc., I can't provide you an answer to that.

So if someone is lv60, there would be no way to know if they have been banned or if they just haven't been online?

And I still can't understand the concept of why one would pay for a game, but not want to play it, and rather have a bot do it for them.

They use bots to gather items/gil for them while they aren't playing. It's not hard at all to understand why they do it.

...can someone explain to me btw how botting gets people their A12S kills? OP keeps brining that up (how botters are having the A12-mount) but I fail to see the connection? Is he assuming that they bought their kills? With gil earned by using bots? That sounds extremly ridicolous... but I cant see how using a bot in that fight would be any good..

I mentioned the mount once. I've seen the mount used by people performing the actions described above, as in, I've seen them move to the spot, summon the a12s mount and fly off. I mentioned the mount to help convey the idea that these aren't simply dummy accounts we're talking about, but to also show how brazen they are.

[HyoMinPark]

The players are all lv60 gatherers in ironworks. They zone in near the aetheryte and perform some conversions. Regardless of where they are in reference to the aetheryte when they've zoned in, they will always move on foot to the same location before mounting up and flying away. Based on where they load in, I can even tell you if they'll use sprint before moving. It is entirely possible that a dozen different players all perform the same actions, including moving to the same location, with no deviation whatsoever from the script, but it's much, much more likely that they're bots. Above info aside, I've witnessed one in the group FATE botting in N Thanalan and I reported one a while back for using a gathering bot which was much more obvious.

Or they are all heading to the same unspoiled/empherical node? Just because multiple players all move to the same location doesn't mean that they are botting. Have you ever seen gatherers at an empherical node before, or an unspoiled node--be it level 50 or 60? Have you ever seen them all hovering on their mounts above it right before they spawn? Just because several different players spawn in the Forelands and all head to the same area does not equate to botting. They're probably heading towards the same node that spawns at a certain time in-game. Unless these conversations they "perform" are the EXACT same EVERY TIME they spawn in, I don't see this as proof of botting.

Now if they were all melted into the other like you see the RMT bots, could probably assume they're botting as most players at the keyboard won't be melted into the other like the RMT bots do. But just moving in unison to the same area doesn't really mean anything, unless you start seeing them teleporting around.

I suspected some hacking was involved. Popular opinion seems to be that nothing is done when they are simply automating gameplay.

I don't think that's the popular opinion here. The popular opinion is that botting shouldn't be allowed period, and that the process for punishing bots STILL OCCURS, albeit at a very, very, VERY slow rate. Not that people aren't punished for it.

So if someone is lv60, there would be no way to know if they have been banned or if they just haven't been online?

While that's true that you can't tell with a 60, unless you start to notice that their character profile never updates on the lodestone (it changes after a while if you change jobs in-game), are you obsessing so much that you're stalking a person's lodestone profile waiting to see some action? It seems you want some notification of an individual being banned from this game, but the GMs will never give you such notification.

They use bots to gather items/gil for them while they aren't playing. It's not hard at all to understand why they do it.

At the risk of sounding snarky: so, they do it to fuel their own laziness? My statement isn't asking for WHY people bot, as in what do they need the bots to do for them. It's asking what kind of mindset do these people even have. Why pay for a game and not play it, but let a bot do it instead? Makes as much sense to me as a football bat.

I mentioned the mount once. I've seen the mount used by people performing the actions described above, as in, I've seen them move to the spot, summon the a12s mount and fly off. I mentioned the mount to help convey the idea that these aren't simply dummy accounts we're talking about, but to also show how brazen they are.

As I mentioned above, just players moving in unison with each other isn't proof of botting. They could easily be heading to the same node that spawns at a certain time in-game. Serious gatherers have schedules for hitting all the important nodes that spawn within an Eorzean day. Unless these players perform the exact same conversations each time they load in (automatic/scripted conversations), and move so much in unison that they are melting into the other, you can't use your example as proof of anything.


My stance remains the same: bots have no place in this game. Too lazy to do your (general "you" here, again) gathering? Well, sounds like a personal problem. Doesn't give any reasons to use bots. Wanna make Gil? Make it like the legit players do: using your own keyboard and mouse/controller. Not a bot.

[SilkaN]

At the risk of sounding snarky: so, they do it to fuel their own laziness? My statement isn't asking for WHY people bot, as in what do they need the bots to do for them. It's asking what kind of mindset do these people even have. Why pay for a game and not play it, but let a bot do it instead? Makes as much sense to me as a football bat.

They don't want to waste their time gathering and do other stuff while they are online. Maybe they view gathering as an annoying hassle but realize that it's necessary for them, so they use bots to avoid doing it themselves.
It doesn't matter whether they are lazy or don't have much time to play each week, there are people out there who are using bots in online games for exactly these reasons.
Just as there are people who are willing to buy Gil from RMT sellers.
You want to know why they are doing this? Because it's safe enough for them to do so and doesn't take away anything from their enjoyment of the game. In fact, it makes it even more enjoyable for them since they don't have to "waste" their time on doing the farming themselves.

Either you are trolling, or incredibly naive.

[HyoMinPark]

Either you are trolling, or incredibly naive.

Not trolling. Neither am I naive. I'm aware that people bot. Still doesn't mean that I agree with the practice of it, agree with the mindset/reasoning behind it, nor think it should be allowed. I don't think you read, nor understand, my posts. And I wasn't aware that disagreeing with the OP on their stance regarding botting, disagreeing with botting in general, or considering it a lazy practice, was considered "trolling" or me being "incredibly naive."

If they don't want to "waste" time on farming mats, then they probably shouldn't have picked up gathering. No one "has" to do anything in this game. One does not "have" to gather, one chooses to. And yeah, it's safe...until one of them ends up on the unlucky side of the banhammer. But, I guess that's up to them, if they are willing to risk their account. And I don't see how enjoyable a game can be if you aren't playing it, but again. Perhaps that's just me. Different folks, different strokes.

[SilkaN]

And I wasn't aware that disagreeing with the OP on their stance regarding botting, disagreeing with botting in general, or considering it a lazy practice, was considered "trolling" or me being "incredibly naive."

Before you accuse me of not reading your posts, please do read mine. I didn't call younaive for disagreeing with OP, I called you naive because the whole concept of wanting to avoid activities some players might consider a hassle seemed completely foreign to you. You are trying to defend viewpoints I didn't even cricitize.

If they don't want to "waste" time on farming mats, then they probably shouldn't have picked up gathering. No one "has" to do anything in this game. One does not "have" to gather, one chooses to. And yeah, it's safe...until one of them ends up on the unlucky side of the banhammer. But, I guess that's up to them, if they are willing to risk their account. And I don't see how enjoyable a game can be if you aren't playing it, but again. Perhaps that's just me. Different folks, different strokes.

Actually, it's not just you, but also the majority of the playerbase (me included). But there are, just like in real life, people who want to avoid hard work and still get the same benefits / rewards as everyone else. I am not trying to justifiy their behavior, but it baffles me that you even have to ask

what kind of mindset do these people even have.

That is why I was calling you naive.

[HyoMinPark]

On phone and it's not letting me quote for some dumb reason.

@SilkaN - I did read your post, but I guess I misunderstood your intent behind it. I have always been of the mindset of, if something is considered a hassle to me, and is not a necessity (to use an example from FFXIV: gathering--optional activity, optional classes to level, and not entirely necessary to in-game progression), then I just don't do it. I don't use third-party services to do things for me. I understand people have different mindsets from myself. Doesn't mean that I'm still not baffled by them. Just as I am baffled by people in real life that don't want to put in any effort in life to earn things, be it money or whatever.

Just because I fail to understand a mindset, in my opinion, I still don't think that makes me naive.

[Zojha]

I have always been of the mindset of, if something is considered a hassle to me, and is not a necessity, then I just don't do it.

Believe it or not - without rewards in the mix, just about everyone has that mindset.

The issue stems from the fact that the content comes with rewards. This is what causes a problem for people: They want the goal but they do not want the way. So ideally, they'd like the way to be done by someone else and come back at the end. That's a notion that's easy to relate to when you consider chores in real life: Washing the dishes, cleaning the rooms, dusting the cupboards, washing the clothes, buying groceries etc. Most people would "love" to skip those and have a clean flat/clothes/dishes anyway, so if a robot or wizard comes along to do just that for them, they'd gladly take the option (Though I'd be sceptical of wizards!).

That mindset isn't even an issue in single-player games. I haven't seen a single person complaining about people using the console in skyrim to skip dungeon parts or create 99 iron bars out of nowhere for some crafting. If they don't like the process, they can just skip it, who cares?

In multiplayer games however, that's an issue, because it affects people and usually negatively. That's why cheats are usually disabled in multiplayer - bots included.