Should the ToS be updated to allow botting?

[Vnolan]

Except it is enforced.

Then why would I be seeing A12 mounts used while botting?

By that logic, you could say "Well, speed limits aren't really being enforced in my city. Why don't we just remove them/make speeding legal to benefit not only the select few that speed, but everyone?" Doesn't make sense.

TIL risking the lives of other people is the same as automating gameplay in a videogame.

I've reported bots. And they were banned. Others have reported bots that, unfortunately, haven't gotten banned yet.

Were the bots using hacks, or were they automating gameplay for FATEs and gathering? How many times would you report a specific bot? If more than once, how often? How long did it take for action to get taken? How did you know they were banned? How did you know they were banned for botting?

Starting to see the issue here?

[HyoMinPark]

Then why would I be seeing A12 mounts used while botting?

Can you prove they're botting? Why do you think they're botting? Are they actually using speed hacks, and teleporting across the map like the gathering bots/BLM and ARC bots do? Or are they just silent, and that's why you equate them to using a botting service? Genuine questions here.

TIL risking the lives of other people is the same as automating gameplay in a video game.

Doesn't change that you're wanting something that "isn't being enforced" to be made allowable just because you seem to think that slow process in banning bots = not being enforced. Let's try another example then: "Movie pirating isn't being enforced. Why not just legalize it so that not only a select few benefit from it?" Granted a lot of people get away with pirating movies and music, but that doesn't mean that people who are caught doing it walk away scot-free.

Substitute any example for something that you think "isn't being enforced," yet is still illegal. Doesn't change the fact that it isn't legal, and should be allowed just because you think it's not being enforced, or that people don't think it's an issue. If the devs wanted to allow botting, they would just allow botting. Yet, they haven't. And the ToS explicitly prohibits such practices. Tells me that they care enough about botting to not want to allow it, regardless of how slow the process is to weed out the bots.

Were the bots using hacks, or were they automating gameplay for FATEs and gathering? How many times would you report a specific bot? If more than once, how often? How long did it take for action to get taken? How did you know they were banned? How did you know they were banned for botting?

Both. They were using speed hacks to teleport across the maps in Thanalan to simulate gameplay through the MSQ, and they were using hacks to disappear and attack mobs from underground. I happened to find them because I clicked on one, and fracked them as they moved underground. See: BLM RMT bots. Not the same as these people supposedly on their main's that are botting, but doesn't change that they were still bots. I only report bots once. And a simple Lodestone search can answer if they were banned. If you reported them two months ago while they were around level 45/50, and you see on their Lodestone profile that the bot is level 45/50 still, probably safe to assume they were banned. I'm not obsessed enough to check every day, so whether it was a day, five days, ten days, twenty, etc., I can't provide you an answer to that.

Botting is botting whether it's RMT BLM doing it to gather Gil to send to other RMT bots to try and sell for money, bot gatherers gathering shards to destroy the market, and stock up for future RMT transactions, legit players automating shard gathering, or a bot running a dungeon with you where all they do is cast Physick the entirety of the run (even when you aren't taking damage!). I've seen them all. Allowing botting in this game would only make it easier for RMT bot to circumvent bans, as now the bans would have to be justified by actually CATCHING the bot in the act of RMT (shouting adverts or actually trading large sums of money to a player who bought it), rather than using evidence of speed hacking or whatnot to ban them.

If you're (general "you" here) so lazy that you don't want to do simple FATEs, run a leveling dungeon, or gather shards (or maintain these multiple Alts that all these top tier raiders have), then you shouldn't be playing the game. If you don't want to do these mundane tasks, then just don't do them. If you "have" to run X Roulette to get X amount of whatever tomes to buy whatever piece of gear you need for your character, well, sorry. Doesn't give a reason to bot. If you "have" to maintain 3-4 alts to bypass raid lockouts, well perhaps you should have thought about that time investment before committing to it. Not an excuse to bot. If you would rather watch Netflix than heal ARF for the umpteenth time, watch Netflix instead. Not like ARF will go anywhere. That's just my opinion though.

Starting to see the issue here?

The only issue I see is that you're so adamant to defend botting. :/

And I still can't understand the concept of why one would pay for a game, but not want to play it, and rather have a bot do it for them. Even if it's for things like FATEs or dungeons or gathering. Don't wanna do those activities? Then don't do them. I hate gathering. I don't particularly enjoy doing it. I despise FATEs, especially after Yokai. I don't want to touch another FATE for a very long time. And, some days, I just don't feel like doing my daily roulettes or beast tribes. Guess what? I just don't do it. I come back to it when I feel inspired to do it.

[Vnolan]

Can you prove they're botting? Why do you think they're botting? Are they actually using speed hacks, and teleporting across the map like the gathering bots/BLM and ARC bots do? Or are they just silent, and that's why you equate them to using a botting service? Genuine questions here.

The players are all lv60 gatherers in ironworks. They zone in near the aetheryte and perform some conversions. Regardless of where they are in reference to the aetheryte when they've zoned in, they will always move on foot to the same location before mounting up and flying away. Based on where they load in, I can even tell you if they'll use sprint before moving. It is entirely possible that a dozen different players all perform the same actions, including moving to the same location, with no deviation whatsoever from the script, but it's much, much more likely that they're bots. Above info aside, I've witnessed one in the group FATE botting in N Thanalan and I reported one a while back for using a gathering bot which was much more obvious.

Both. They were using speed hacks and they were using hacks to disappear and attack mobs from underground. I only report bots once.

I suspected some hacking was involved. Popular opinion seems to be that nothing is done when they are simply automating gameplay.

And a simple Lodestone search can answer if they were banned. If you reported them two months ago while they were around level 45/50, and you see on their Lodestone profile that the bot is level 45/50 still, probably safe to assume they were banned. I'm not obsessed enough to check every day, so whether it was a day, five days, ten days, twenty, etc., I can't provide you an answer to that.

So if someone is lv60, there would be no way to know if they have been banned or if they just haven't been online?

And I still can't understand the concept of why one would pay for a game, but not want to play it, and rather have a bot do it for them.

They use bots to gather items/gil for them while they aren't playing. It's not hard at all to understand why they do it.

...can someone explain to me btw how botting gets people their A12S kills? OP keeps brining that up (how botters are having the A12-mount) but I fail to see the connection? Is he assuming that they bought their kills? With gil earned by using bots? That sounds extremly ridicolous... but I cant see how using a bot in that fight would be any good..

I mentioned the mount once. I've seen the mount used by people performing the actions described above, as in, I've seen them move to the spot, summon the a12s mount and fly off. I mentioned the mount to help convey the idea that these aren't simply dummy accounts we're talking about, but to also show how brazen they are.

[HyoMinPark]

The players are all lv60 gatherers in ironworks. They zone in near the aetheryte and perform some conversions. Regardless of where they are in reference to the aetheryte when they've zoned in, they will always move on foot to the same location before mounting up and flying away. Based on where they load in, I can even tell you if they'll use sprint before moving. It is entirely possible that a dozen different players all perform the same actions, including moving to the same location, with no deviation whatsoever from the script, but it's much, much more likely that they're bots. Above info aside, I've witnessed one in the group FATE botting in N Thanalan and I reported one a while back for using a gathering bot which was much more obvious.

Or they are all heading to the same unspoiled/empherical node? Just because multiple players all move to the same location doesn't mean that they are botting. Have you ever seen gatherers at an empherical node before, or an unspoiled node--be it level 50 or 60? Have you ever seen them all hovering on their mounts above it right before they spawn? Just because several different players spawn in the Forelands and all head to the same area does not equate to botting. They're probably heading towards the same node that spawns at a certain time in-game. Unless these conversations they "perform" are the EXACT same EVERY TIME they spawn in, I don't see this as proof of botting.

Now if they were all melted into the other like you see the RMT bots, could probably assume they're botting as most players at the keyboard won't be melted into the other like the RMT bots do. But just moving in unison to the same area doesn't really mean anything, unless you start seeing them teleporting around.

I suspected some hacking was involved. Popular opinion seems to be that nothing is done when they are simply automating gameplay.

I don't think that's the popular opinion here. The popular opinion is that botting shouldn't be allowed period, and that the process for punishing bots STILL OCCURS, albeit at a very, very, VERY slow rate. Not that people aren't punished for it.

So if someone is lv60, there would be no way to know if they have been banned or if they just haven't been online?

While that's true that you can't tell with a 60, unless you start to notice that their character profile never updates on the lodestone (it changes after a while if you change jobs in-game), are you obsessing so much that you're stalking a person's lodestone profile waiting to see some action? It seems you want some notification of an individual being banned from this game, but the GMs will never give you such notification.

They use bots to gather items/gil for them while they aren't playing. It's not hard at all to understand why they do it.

At the risk of sounding snarky: so, they do it to fuel their own laziness? My statement isn't asking for WHY people bot, as in what do they need the bots to do for them. It's asking what kind of mindset do these people even have. Why pay for a game and not play it, but let a bot do it instead? Makes as much sense to me as a football bat.

I mentioned the mount once. I've seen the mount used by people performing the actions described above, as in, I've seen them move to the spot, summon the a12s mount and fly off. I mentioned the mount to help convey the idea that these aren't simply dummy accounts we're talking about, but to also show how brazen they are.

As I mentioned above, just players moving in unison with each other isn't proof of botting. They could easily be heading to the same node that spawns at a certain time in-game. Serious gatherers have schedules for hitting all the important nodes that spawn within an Eorzean day. Unless these players perform the exact same conversations each time they load in (automatic/scripted conversations), and move so much in unison that they are melting into the other, you can't use your example as proof of anything.


My stance remains the same: bots have no place in this game. Too lazy to do your (general "you" here, again) gathering? Well, sounds like a personal problem. Doesn't give any reasons to use bots. Wanna make Gil? Make it like the legit players do: using your own keyboard and mouse/controller. Not a bot.

[SilkaN]

At the risk of sounding snarky: so, they do it to fuel their own laziness? My statement isn't asking for WHY people bot, as in what do they need the bots to do for them. It's asking what kind of mindset do these people even have. Why pay for a game and not play it, but let a bot do it instead? Makes as much sense to me as a football bat.

They don't want to waste their time gathering and do other stuff while they are online. Maybe they view gathering as an annoying hassle but realize that it's necessary for them, so they use bots to avoid doing it themselves.
It doesn't matter whether they are lazy or don't have much time to play each week, there are people out there who are using bots in online games for exactly these reasons.
Just as there are people who are willing to buy Gil from RMT sellers.
You want to know why they are doing this? Because it's safe enough for them to do so and doesn't take away anything from their enjoyment of the game. In fact, it makes it even more enjoyable for them since they don't have to "waste" their time on doing the farming themselves.

Either you are trolling, or incredibly naive.

[HyoMinPark]

Either you are trolling, or incredibly naive.

Not trolling. Neither am I naive. I'm aware that people bot. Still doesn't mean that I agree with the practice of it, agree with the mindset/reasoning behind it, nor think it should be allowed. I don't think you read, nor understand, my posts. And I wasn't aware that disagreeing with the OP on their stance regarding botting, disagreeing with botting in general, or considering it a lazy practice, was considered "trolling" or me being "incredibly naive."

If they don't want to "waste" time on farming mats, then they probably shouldn't have picked up gathering. No one "has" to do anything in this game. One does not "have" to gather, one chooses to. And yeah, it's safe...until one of them ends up on the unlucky side of the banhammer. But, I guess that's up to them, if they are willing to risk their account. And I don't see how enjoyable a game can be if you aren't playing it, but again. Perhaps that's just me. Different folks, different strokes.

[SilkaN]

And I wasn't aware that disagreeing with the OP on their stance regarding botting, disagreeing with botting in general, or considering it a lazy practice, was considered "trolling" or me being "incredibly naive."

Before you accuse me of not reading your posts, please do read mine. I didn't call younaive for disagreeing with OP, I called you naive because the whole concept of wanting to avoid activities some players might consider a hassle seemed completely foreign to you. You are trying to defend viewpoints I didn't even cricitize.

If they don't want to "waste" time on farming mats, then they probably shouldn't have picked up gathering. No one "has" to do anything in this game. One does not "have" to gather, one chooses to. And yeah, it's safe...until one of them ends up on the unlucky side of the banhammer. But, I guess that's up to them, if they are willing to risk their account. And I don't see how enjoyable a game can be if you aren't playing it, but again. Perhaps that's just me. Different folks, different strokes.

Actually, it's not just you, but also the majority of the playerbase (me included). But there are, just like in real life, people who want to avoid hard work and still get the same benefits / rewards as everyone else. I am not trying to justifiy their behavior, but it baffles me that you even have to ask

what kind of mindset do these people even have.

That is why I was calling you naive.

[Vnolan]

Or they are all heading to the same unspoiled/empherical node? Just because multiple players all move to the same location doesn't mean that they are botting. Have you ever seen gatherers at an empherical node before, or an unspoiled node--be it level 50 or 60?

Picture the aetheryte as being the center of a map. Regardless of where they zone in, whether it be NW, NE or somewhere else, they will always move on foot to SW of the aetheryte before mounting up and flying away.

[FabricioRF]

Give up, OP. I've seen the same bots everyday since I moved to Gilgamesh, a year and a half ago.