Should the ToS be updated to allow botting?

[Riardon]

Stop doing drugs seriously.

[Moonlite]

The OP seems a little off. To the other people that wonder about the banning. SE policy since 11 has been allowed bots and rmt to grow and multiply and sink their roots into the game and then pull them all out at once.

No proof that SE policy is better then the other policy. They have never discussed why they think this is a better system. Some speculation is it is the cheapest system to maintain with the least amount of accidental bans. Another idea is imagine the game design just in shards for crafting and they went up to thousands of gil per shard. This system also helps them maintain some poorer game designs (tin hat theory, but I liked it). It does nothing to help the current player farming some an item to sell or use to save gil.

[VanilleFang]

Uh, no. Just because people are doing it doesn't mean it should be allowed.

[Vnolan]

I dont see the logic behind the argumentation though - why does "nothing gets done" should equal "lets just allow it all together"? I dont understand why you conclude "Hey, nothing gets done, lets just make it legal!"

Because then not only those that realize that it's not enforced will benefit from it. Looking at it from a different view, how much time and energy would it save the community if they no longer had to make those reports which, according to other posters in this thread, had no effect?

The OP seems a little off. To the other people that wonder about the banning. SE policy since 11 has been allowed bots and rmt to grow and multiply and sink their roots into the game and then pull them all out at once.

Not talking about RMT or the obvious alts made to grind. I'm talking about people on their mains. If what you say is true and they are removed in waves, people wouldn't be taking the risk. Worth mentioning, one of them in the current group I had reported a while back.

[HyoMinPark]

Except it is enforced. Just because some bots manage to avoid getting banned for months, or even years, doesn't equate to SE not enforcing or not caring about it. By that logic, you could say "Well, speed limits aren't really being enforced in my city. Why don't we just remove them/make speeding legal to benefit not only the select few that speed, but everyone?" Doesn't make sense.

I've reported bots. And they were banned. Others have reported bots that, unfortunately, haven't gotten banned yet. But, again, just because some have managed to stick around doesn't mean SE doesn't care to get rid of them. Otherwise, they would allow botting. Heck, they'd probably add bot packages to the Mogstation and try to profit off of it.

I'd rather fill out reports for bots than SE add it to the ToS to promote even more laziness. Maybe that's just me, though.

[Vnolan]

Except it is enforced.

Then why would I be seeing A12 mounts used while botting?

By that logic, you could say "Well, speed limits aren't really being enforced in my city. Why don't we just remove them/make speeding legal to benefit not only the select few that speed, but everyone?" Doesn't make sense.

TIL risking the lives of other people is the same as automating gameplay in a videogame.

I've reported bots. And they were banned. Others have reported bots that, unfortunately, haven't gotten banned yet.

Were the bots using hacks, or were they automating gameplay for FATEs and gathering? How many times would you report a specific bot? If more than once, how often? How long did it take for action to get taken? How did you know they were banned? How did you know they were banned for botting?

Starting to see the issue here?

[RubyCirha]

Stop being lazy and play the game or play any game frome perfect world they have in game bits most of the time or even better they had a game where you could meditation in the city's and lvl up by just siting there with the game running and lvl to max god wtf is wrong with today's gamers

If you Wana add a bot to the game add a bot that auto reports people for boting

[HyoMinPark]

Then why would I be seeing A12 mounts used while botting?

Can you prove they're botting? Why do you think they're botting? Are they actually using speed hacks, and teleporting across the map like the gathering bots/BLM and ARC bots do? Or are they just silent, and that's why you equate them to using a botting service? Genuine questions here.

TIL risking the lives of other people is the same as automating gameplay in a video game.

Doesn't change that you're wanting something that "isn't being enforced" to be made allowable just because you seem to think that slow process in banning bots = not being enforced. Let's try another example then: "Movie pirating isn't being enforced. Why not just legalize it so that not only a select few benefit from it?" Granted a lot of people get away with pirating movies and music, but that doesn't mean that people who are caught doing it walk away scot-free.

Substitute any example for something that you think "isn't being enforced," yet is still illegal. Doesn't change the fact that it isn't legal, and should be allowed just because you think it's not being enforced, or that people don't think it's an issue. If the devs wanted to allow botting, they would just allow botting. Yet, they haven't. And the ToS explicitly prohibits such practices. Tells me that they care enough about botting to not want to allow it, regardless of how slow the process is to weed out the bots.

Were the bots using hacks, or were they automating gameplay for FATEs and gathering? How many times would you report a specific bot? If more than once, how often? How long did it take for action to get taken? How did you know they were banned? How did you know they were banned for botting?

Both. They were using speed hacks to teleport across the maps in Thanalan to simulate gameplay through the MSQ, and they were using hacks to disappear and attack mobs from underground. I happened to find them because I clicked on one, and fracked them as they moved underground. See: BLM RMT bots. Not the same as these people supposedly on their main's that are botting, but doesn't change that they were still bots. I only report bots once. And a simple Lodestone search can answer if they were banned. If you reported them two months ago while they were around level 45/50, and you see on their Lodestone profile that the bot is level 45/50 still, probably safe to assume they were banned. I'm not obsessed enough to check every day, so whether it was a day, five days, ten days, twenty, etc., I can't provide you an answer to that.

Botting is botting whether it's RMT BLM doing it to gather Gil to send to other RMT bots to try and sell for money, bot gatherers gathering shards to destroy the market, and stock up for future RMT transactions, legit players automating shard gathering, or a bot running a dungeon with you where all they do is cast Physick the entirety of the run (even when you aren't taking damage!). I've seen them all. Allowing botting in this game would only make it easier for RMT bot to circumvent bans, as now the bans would have to be justified by actually CATCHING the bot in the act of RMT (shouting adverts or actually trading large sums of money to a player who bought it), rather than using evidence of speed hacking or whatnot to ban them.

If you're (general "you" here) so lazy that you don't want to do simple FATEs, run a leveling dungeon, or gather shards (or maintain these multiple Alts that all these top tier raiders have), then you shouldn't be playing the game. If you don't want to do these mundane tasks, then just don't do them. If you "have" to run X Roulette to get X amount of whatever tomes to buy whatever piece of gear you need for your character, well, sorry. Doesn't give a reason to bot. If you "have" to maintain 3-4 alts to bypass raid lockouts, well perhaps you should have thought about that time investment before committing to it. Not an excuse to bot. If you would rather watch Netflix than heal ARF for the umpteenth time, watch Netflix instead. Not like ARF will go anywhere. That's just my opinion though.

Starting to see the issue here?

The only issue I see is that you're so adamant to defend botting. :/

And I still can't understand the concept of why one would pay for a game, but not want to play it, and rather have a bot do it for them. Even if it's for things like FATEs or dungeons or gathering. Don't wanna do those activities? Then don't do them. I hate gathering. I don't particularly enjoy doing it. I despise FATEs, especially after Yokai. I don't want to touch another FATE for a very long time. And, some days, I just don't feel like doing my daily roulettes or beast tribes. Guess what? I just don't do it. I come back to it when I feel inspired to do it.

[Vidu]

Because then not only those that realize that it's not enforced will benefit from it. Looking at it from a different view, how much time and energy would it save the community if they no longer had to make those reports which, according to other posters in this thread, had no effect?

So what you're saying is "I want to use bots too to let them play this game for me!"

Nope, honey, just nope, not gonna happen - for various reasons. They shouldnt allow it and it would be nice if they could do more about those bots, but it all comes down to manpower etc. They dont need to allow it though, just because they cant enforce it on a global level and ban everyone right away.

You also dont seem to realise that its not as easy as just saying "yeah, you can bot as much as you want" - bots are currently third party tools which means they're a security risk as explained in the ToS. SE will and should never allow something that could cause potational harm to their product and/or customers. For the most "obvious" bot-issues, like grinding, there are already legal "solutions" in the game: you can grove shard-plants, you can send out your retainers for shards/crystals/mats etc. There is absolutly no need to allow botting for the normal player...

[MilesSaintboroguh]

If OP feels like botting should be a thing because botters are never punished, then why is he trying to justify botting so much? Go bot yourself and see how long it goes for. What do you got to lose?