Recurring Theme On Specific Class Demands Per Content Because of Difficulty.

[Wolfie]

There will always be classes that excel at certain fights

Why do you say this?

And why does "excelling" at a fight have to mean that every other class is nearly unusable? Why can't it be just a minor 1-5% performance increase?

[Answa]

Why do you say this?

And why does "excelling" at a fight have to mean that every other class is nearly unusable? Why can't it be just a minor 1-5% performance increase?

What.

I say it because... it's true?

Only archer is "unusable" and this is getting fixed in 1.20. It is just a minor thing. You just have to run away from Sear every 7 seconds.

[Rentahamster]

There are many ways to beat the content, but no one knows about them because the playerbase sees how the Japanese or BG does content and sticks to that

They're not doing it that way to mimic BG, they're doing it that way because it is the easiest way to do it. No one's going to intentionally make a fight harder for themselves if they don't have to. It is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using lancers as DD. That's really the only thing at play here.

[DeadRiser]

The few Ifrit fights I have been in with my LS have just been first come first serve. It just so happens that 2-3 of our members has LNC at 50. But they didn't say no to the MRD, THM, or PUG's being invited. People take what's easier over anything else... which is pathetic lol.

[Vingtdeux]

No one's going to intentionally make a fight harder for themselves if they don't have to.

This.

Perfect balance will never be achieved, there will always be a method better than any other.

Just find people who enjoy the challenge to go without the most effective setup.

[Murugan]

What.

I say it because... it's true?

Only archer is "unusable" and this is getting fixed in 1.20. It is just a minor thing. You just have to run away from Sear every 7 seconds.

I've seen archers in Darkhold gear do 12+ DPS on an Ifrit, so they are hardly "unusable" for ifrit or even a liability.

They're not doing it that way to mimic BG, they're doing it that way because it is the easiest way to do it. No one's going to intentionally make a fight harder for themselves if they don't have to. It is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using lancers as DD. That's really the only thing at play here.

Though I generally play LNC when DD'ing, I can out DPS most random Lancers as a MRD, and though I haven't played pugilist one in my LS out damages most LNC parses I have seen from other "elite" linkshells.

I do think people do it to "mimic" videos they saw online, and in doing it they don't realize how much of an affect player skill has on the fight versus what classes everyone plays.

What I mean is it is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using 5 pugilists who know how to play well, than your average Lancer. Classes could be balanced better, but that doesn't negate the fact that some people in this community are just terrible at the game and like to blame balance/mechanics for that.

[Rentahamster]

What I mean is it is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using 5 pugilists who know how to play well, than your average Lancer.

Yes, it would be easier, but that is because you're taking player skill into account. Good players will always do better than bad players.

Player skill is a diverse variable, so in an analysis of balance, that has to be the variable that you control for. Everything else being equal, when considering players of the same skill level, they will have an easier time as a lancer as opposed to any other DD class.

[darkstarpoet1]

ifrit is not unbeatable with any dd and that makes it a community issue and not a se issue. people found the video and try to mimic that setup. we've beaten it with thm in and out of party, archer in the party, pug in the party, mrd in the party, gla in the party. it can be done with a skilled group of people with different classes and does not have to be lancer/ lancer/ lancer/ lancer/ mrd/ con/ con/ con.

[Murugan]

Yes, it would be easier, but that is because you're taking player skill into account. Good players will always do better than bad players.

Player skill is a diverse variable, so in an analysis of balance, that has to be the variable that you control for. Everything else being equal, when considering players of the same skill level, they will have an easier time as a lancer as opposed to any other DD class.

Which is not the point of this thread, the OP claims that most people only have one class to 50 (which I doubt is true any longer) and so they can't even do this content because it is Lancer only.

That is simply not true. It doesn't matter if someone is playing LNC or Pugilist, they will lose the fight (or be a liability) if they don't play their class well. Just being a Lancer doesn't make Ifrit "easy mode", and a good pugilist will be better than most average Lancers so if a person only has Pugilist or simply wants to play Pugilist the most I see no issue with that because it is not a liability.

They have said for a long time that they are balancing the classes, but people who blame prohibitively difficult mechanics for them "not being able to play a certain class" are wrong. As someone who has put together countless groups for Ifrit I know when a person is contributing to a fight, and every class is certainly capable of that on Ifrit. So no the content doesn't discriminate against certain classes.

There is a difference between that, and admitting that yes Lancer is obviously overpowered doing the most damage and being able to sit outside aoe range with a proc heal.

[Viridiana]

Actually, Ifrit would only require a small change to stop LNC spam: Increase the range of Sear to LNC's maximum attack range. Or, y'know, remove Sear entirely, but the first option is much more likely. If LNC had to deal with Sear damage like everyone else, they wouldn't be nearly as favored.

That one aspect aside, I rather like the mechanics to Ifrit. . .