Recurring Theme On Specific Class Demands Per Content Because of Difficulty.

[Wolfie]

BG is to blame partly.

Don't blame the symptom, blame the disease (poorly designed fights and poorly balanced classes).

[Answa]

Don't blame the symptom, blame the disease (poorly designed fights and poorly balanced classes).

lawl. How is it poorly designed? There will always be classes that excel at certain fights, but that doesn't give it exclusivity in them unless people let it become so.

Blame the elitists, not the design.

[Wolfie]

There will always be classes that excel at certain fights

Why do you say this?

And why does "excelling" at a fight have to mean that every other class is nearly unusable? Why can't it be just a minor 1-5% performance increase?

[Answa]

Why do you say this?

And why does "excelling" at a fight have to mean that every other class is nearly unusable? Why can't it be just a minor 1-5% performance increase?

What.

I say it because... it's true?

Only archer is "unusable" and this is getting fixed in 1.20. It is just a minor thing. You just have to run away from Sear every 7 seconds.

[Murugan]

What.

I say it because... it's true?

Only archer is "unusable" and this is getting fixed in 1.20. It is just a minor thing. You just have to run away from Sear every 7 seconds.

I've seen archers in Darkhold gear do 12+ DPS on an Ifrit, so they are hardly "unusable" for ifrit or even a liability.

They're not doing it that way to mimic BG, they're doing it that way because it is the easiest way to do it. No one's going to intentionally make a fight harder for themselves if they don't have to. It is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using lancers as DD. That's really the only thing at play here.

Though I generally play LNC when DD'ing, I can out DPS most random Lancers as a MRD, and though I haven't played pugilist one in my LS out damages most LNC parses I have seen from other "elite" linkshells.

I do think people do it to "mimic" videos they saw online, and in doing it they don't realize how much of an affect player skill has on the fight versus what classes everyone plays.

What I mean is it is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using 5 pugilists who know how to play well, than your average Lancer. Classes could be balanced better, but that doesn't negate the fact that some people in this community are just terrible at the game and like to blame balance/mechanics for that.

[Rentahamster]

What I mean is it is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using 5 pugilists who know how to play well, than your average Lancer.

Yes, it would be easier, but that is because you're taking player skill into account. Good players will always do better than bad players.

Player skill is a diverse variable, so in an analysis of balance, that has to be the variable that you control for. Everything else being equal, when considering players of the same skill level, they will have an easier time as a lancer as opposed to any other DD class.

[Murugan]

Yes, it would be easier, but that is because you're taking player skill into account. Good players will always do better than bad players.

Player skill is a diverse variable, so in an analysis of balance, that has to be the variable that you control for. Everything else being equal, when considering players of the same skill level, they will have an easier time as a lancer as opposed to any other DD class.

Which is not the point of this thread, the OP claims that most people only have one class to 50 (which I doubt is true any longer) and so they can't even do this content because it is Lancer only.

That is simply not true. It doesn't matter if someone is playing LNC or Pugilist, they will lose the fight (or be a liability) if they don't play their class well. Just being a Lancer doesn't make Ifrit "easy mode", and a good pugilist will be better than most average Lancers so if a person only has Pugilist or simply wants to play Pugilist the most I see no issue with that because it is not a liability.

They have said for a long time that they are balancing the classes, but people who blame prohibitively difficult mechanics for them "not being able to play a certain class" are wrong. As someone who has put together countless groups for Ifrit I know when a person is contributing to a fight, and every class is certainly capable of that on Ifrit. So no the content doesn't discriminate against certain classes.

There is a difference between that, and admitting that yes Lancer is obviously overpowered doing the most damage and being able to sit outside aoe range with a proc heal.

[Clydey]

I've seen archers in Darkhold gear do 12+ DPS on an Ifrit, so they are hardly "unusable" for ifrit or even a liability.



Though I generally play LNC when DD'ing, I can out DPS most random Lancers as a MRD, and though I haven't played pugilist one in my LS out damages most LNC parses I have seen from other "elite" linkshells.

I do think people do it to "mimic" videos they saw online, and in doing it they don't realize how much of an affect player skill has on the fight versus what classes everyone plays.

What I mean is it is objectively easier to beat Ifrit using 5 pugilists who know how to play well, than your average Lancer. Classes could be balanced better, but that doesn't negate the fact that some people in this community are just terrible at the game and like to blame balance/mechanics for that.

If your PGLs are out DPSing Lancers of certain linkshells, those linkshells aren't elite. The cooldown on Victimize kills PGL DPS.

[Murugan]

If your PGLs are out DPSing Lancers of certain linkshells, those linkshells aren't elite. The cooldown on Victimize kills PGL DPS.

Well I've seen certain parses paraded out in numerous threads in this forum from shells bragging about getting the short work achievement with lancers parsing a "measly" 16-18 DPS. I've seen PGL that could definitely have out parsed those.

I agree, but its hard to avoid cookie cutter setups, if SE keeps adding cookie cutter dungeons.

and thats the problem.

It's not a cookie cutter fight. My god, sear is not that hard to heal through.

[Lavani]

lawl. How is it poorly designed? There will always be classes that excel at certain fights, but that doesn't give it exclusivity in them unless people let it become so.

Blame the elitists, not the design.

Despite the fact that this is the current reality, it doesn't have to be, and IMO it shouldn't be. It is poor design because it turns the game into "what is the current flavor of the month this patch?" rather than focusing on balancing classes so they are all equally good in any given encounter.