Which Tank is Better Off MT?

[Ilan]

I currently have WAR dan DRK at Lv. 60, and my Lv. 57 PLD is going to be there as well.

Just curious what role should I assume in case of three/two men tank scenario if I were to play one or the other. What I currently certain is that WAR will always be the best OT as its best ability can only be unlocked in Deliverance (Triple Fell Cleaves FTW). I need more opinion about DRK/PLD.

Also, if you have two WARs at one run, which one should MT? I always think it's the best geared since they don't require as much heals but they can be a better OT too.

Please enlighten me,

Michael

What are we talking about? Savage raids, EX primals or just the usual DF 8-24 player stuff?

For savage and EX primals its what Lambdafish wrote, for the DF stuff its ----> everyone can do everything since its all so easy that it doesn't matter at all.

[Lambdafish]

DRK should always be mt over pld. DRKS lose so much damage and their only utility as an OT, why would you ever force that on them?

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

[ArdorGrey]

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

Iunno. The idea of an "MT" and "OT" period is kinda stupid. Everything goes smoother when tanks share uptime-assuming healers aren't stupid, but they usually are.

That aside, plds can bring some decent hurt in OT stance(I'd be curious in serious mathers revisiting the 2.x revelation that war MT/pld OT was actually higher dps than the opposite) and have way more OT utility than drk. The only advantage of bringing drk as ot or mt is only damage over pld, and a little bit from riposte when MTing.

Some of the most DF fun I've had is OTing as pld and using cover in abusive situations and stoneskinning during downtime breathers. I used to occasionally see OT plds that did stuff like this in 2.x(and these few awesome souls are actually what inspired me to level pld in 3.x), but since 3.x plds are 100% in the already popular "I HAZ SHIELD SO MAEK WAY FOR OBVERUS MT!" camp. Even your entire argument for pld MT ignores the fact that pld can throw cover on the MT while OTing and thus add their own formidable physical defense on top of the other tanks already more than plentiful physical mitigation. Drk OT is just a jankey dps. :/

[Launched]

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

If, for some reason, you had PLD+DRK (party finder/raid finder etc.), you'd lose a lot more by having PLD MT. Reprisal is a lot more important than PLD taking slightly less physical damage, because DRK can tank everything fine and still drop Grit to get the most out of Blood Weapon. There's no fight where having a PLD MT greatly reduces the strain on healers.

[bounddreamer]

Actually, the better geared warrior should be the OT, as long as the other one can hold aggro. I can do more damage than other warriors who are still in 250 or lower gear.

[Msugi]

Actually, the better geared warrior should be the OT, as long as the other one can hold aggro. I can do more damage than other warriors who are still in 250 or lower gear.

I was thinking about this too when I questioned the WAR/WAR scenario. But after reading and replying some posts I suddenly realize that we play as a team here, so if by you MTing = reducing the stress on the healers = healers have more uptime on the target will compensate the additional damage you lost. So I guess both positions should be okay as long as we communicate it (like letting the healers know if you turn on deliverance so they can focus on healing you more than dpsing or turning hallowed ground on so they can burn the boss)

Even though DF stuff are almost guaranteed wins, but it sure is nice to finish it faster every time. Good practice for high-level play for the very least lol

[Msugi]

Technically WAR should be pulling regardless of composition and a tank swap should happen after the Berserk window.

But if you're just going to do DF stuff then: PLD/WAR = PLD MT, DRK/WAR = DRK MT, WAR/WAR = whichever has better gear is MT, PLD/DRK = imo PLD should MT simply due to part of their threat combo being a part of their DPS rotation which can lead to threat issues with DRK as MT.

I agree with you, because the bloodprice lost is easily replaced by blood weapon, which practically (after a lot of trial) capable doing the same thing. So maybe DRK just lose reprisal, whereas PLD lose shield swipe, which is kinda huge since pacification doesn't really work on bosses. Low blow reset isn't that big of a deal, at least not for me

[bounddreamer]

Msugi, I've done it both ways. A10N, I've off tanked when the other guy looked at me and said "want to off tank? You'll do more damage." I've also main tanked when the other guy said "hmm, you have more HP and you're pulling threat off me in Deliverance."

I've also been MT and OT in A12N in similar situations. One time the other tank handed me MT reins after a wipe and with my HP pool and use of cooldowns I gave the healers an easier job of it.

It goes both ways but communication and cooperation are key.

[FinalWolf]

All of them. The best Mt is a meta made by raiders.

[Msugi]

I was just thinking about this when I showered. My PLD is 58 now, and since I enjoyed both WAR and DRK so much, it makes me think whether having a 60 seemingly simplistic PLD is going to be of any use at all. But then it came to me that PLD is just like the NIN/BRD of tank classes; the skills that I thought rather useless (Cover, Healing Skills, and Stoneskin) only can be optimized when we're not so busy tanking. Even Hallowed Ground can be used sparingly in DF dungeons to let the healer switch to Cleric Stance and burn down the boss for the next 10 secs.

Yes, maybe Sword Oath PLD will never beat DRK and WAR OT stance, but its utilities may come in handy either as a raid utility dps boost or raid survivability in Savages (Pardon me if I'm wrong, never tried any savage so it's not really my place to make the claim). Maybe now in DRK/PLD situation I will let the DRK MT while I'm being the supportive PLD, because I never really sure what to do when there's no WAR around. I simply assume that if the other tank doesn't have the tank stance on, it means they want me to MT lol.