Which Tank is Better Off MT?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Interesting how NA EU is the opposite of jp standards. War can still put out high damage if it is the Main Tank by stance dancing, while Paladin can go in sword oath and utilize it's max dps. In my opinion War should always be MT and DRK/PLD Off tank.

Tbf, dps wise the priority would go DRK, War, then PLD at the tail end. DRK gains reprisal AND low blow procs in main tank.

[Sarcatica]

Interesting how NA EU is the opposite of jp standards. War can still put out high damage if it is the Main Tank by stance dancing, while Paladin can go in sword oath and utilize it's max dps. In my opinion War should always be MT and DRK/PLD Off tank.

WAR only gains Vengeance and BB combo when MT, DRK gains more mana for dase, low blow and reprisal, PLD gets shield swipe. WAR MT gains the least and that's a fact. The only thing have WAR MT going is just for the initial aggro and that's it while DRK/PLD pulling is a huge DPS loss. You can see fflogs why most top speedruns for a10s-a12s have war pulling. The reason is as simple as aggro and DRK/PLD has huge burst at opener that relies heavily on WAR pulling.

As a DRK, I get to peak at <2.7k++ at opener when my WAR pulls first and WAR easily does about the same or more while MT. When you look into maximizing total DPS as a raid group, this small adjustment is what enables DRK to do huge damage. Ofc granted that you need good tanks to enable both aggro and damage. Compare this to DRK pulling, you are 100% sure to lose aggro over time because without Grit and DASE spam, you have to top up aggro.

[RizenSaga]

This is like saying that gravity is a meta made by Newton.

LOL. Gravity is just a meta made by Newton. Before him it was Aristotle who believed everything was fixed. Then it was Newton and gravity(force pulls mass towards mass). Einstein's General Relativity theory says that there is no force called gravity — that there is a warping of spacetime created by the presence of mass, and that objects are just led through the path of least resistance through this warped spacetime. So um you just referenced an old Meta made by some of the old elite raiders, sorry Brah.

[aleph_null]

snip

I meant saying that best composition is just a meta made by raiders is pointless, since that's a meta for a good reason (potentially the most optimal for the raid tier) and that it changes over time. If the person I quoted thought that there was no such thing as best MT or best composition in a raid tier then he's just being delusional.

A bit off topic but cmiiw isn't gravity defined as the effect caused by spacetime curvature? As in it's not a force anymore but that's still called gravity. I'm bad at physics lmao.

Interesting how NA EU is the opposite of jp standards. War can still put out high damage if it is the Main Tank by stance dancing, while Paladin can go in sword oath and utilize it's max dps. In my opinion War should always be MT and DRK/PLD Off tank.

Eh no even in jp pugs usually pld/drk pulls and tanks the boss most of the time unless there's a forced tank swap. If you're talking about statics most of the optimized runs have wars pull followed by a tank swap with both tanks out of tank stance.

[RizenSaga]

I meant saying that best composition is just a meta made by raiders is pointless, since that's a meta for a good reason (potentially the most optimal for the raid tier) and that it changes over time. If the person I quoted thought that there was no such thing as best MT or best composition in a raid tier then he's just being delusional.

A bit off topic but cmiiw isn't gravity defined as the effect caused by spacetime curvature? As in it's not a force anymore but that's still called gravity. I'm bad at physics lmao.

I know what you meant and 100% agree with your opinion.
Yeah you are right on the definition, but the current definition of gravity was made by Newton then changed to fit Einsteins Theory of relativity. Gravity doesn't change; it's what it is, but the word- the definition did. So Einstein literally shattered Newtons definition (Meta) just as Newton shattered Aristotle's beliefs.

I know I was being difficult and using the definition and how it changed and not at all how you meant it. I love Irony and even though I know what you meant I couldn't resist because most people just take something clever like what you said and run with it.

[aleph_null]

I know what you meant and 100% agree with your opinion.
Yeah you are right on the definition, but the current definition of gravity was made by Newton then changed to fit Einsteins Theory of relativity. Gravity doesn't change; it's what it is, but the word- the definition did. So Einstein literally shattered Newtons definition (Meta) just as Newton shattered Aristotle's beliefs.

I know I was being difficult and using the definition and how it changed and not at all how you meant it. I love Irony and even though I know what you meant I couldn't resist because most people just take something clever like what you said and run with it.

I was sorta trying to imply that metas may change over time (new raid tiers, job changes etc) so I picked Newton as an example. Welp thanks for the correction, you learn something new everyday.

[lulunami]

DRK/PLD are still going to be the main tank in general. WAR is really good as an off tank although it is a good main tank too.

For DPS optimizations purposes, groups can have the WAR pull the boss in Defiance with Unchained, pop Equilibrium for the aggro burst, switch into Deliverance after a GCD or whenever, then the DRK/PLD provoke and take the aggro lead in Sword Oath/Grit Off. WAR then just rotates Storm's Eye combos and Berserk Fell Cleave and things. DRK/PLD can do their burst opener without worrying about aggro combo.

DRK/PLD lose out on procs if they are off-tanking which lowers raid DPS. That is why most speed run groups still have DRK main tank with a WAR off tank.

[Hayward]

Answer: Any tank who gives enough of a damn about defense, i.e. anyone who doesn't have the mindset of James Harden of the Houston Rockets.

[Zampp]

Depends on the content. In Normal mode crap war should always MT. Savage Have the tank thats not a war tank(most of the time). In NM War pull with unchained. Once Unchained ends swap to dps stance and tank in it. As 0 of the current NM fights need tank stance and war can get most aggro while doing most damage.

If you are running with PLD DRK it depends on fight.

[Galactimus]

My i270 PLD now does slightly more DPS than my i270 DRK if I forget to reapply Scourge every 30 seconds. At least on fights where DRK can't inflate my DPS using AoE's on trash mobs. A person that has mastered DRK still deals more DPS than a PLD. However, there is very little room for error. Keep in mind that a PLD (with a much easier rotation) does the same DPS if you fail to keep Scourge up or fall out of Darkside one too many times. Things a PLD rotation never has to think about.

DRK greatly rewards those whom can micro manage everything to perfection.
PLD's simplicity rewards you with higher raid awareness; not having to keep an eye on MP bars and non-combo dot timers constantly.