Which Tank is Better Off MT?

[Msugi]

Technically WAR should be pulling regardless of composition and a tank swap should happen after the Berserk window.

But if you're just going to do DF stuff then: PLD/WAR = PLD MT, DRK/WAR = DRK MT, WAR/WAR = whichever has better gear is MT, PLD/DRK = imo PLD should MT simply due to part of their threat combo being a part of their DPS rotation which can lead to threat issues with DRK as MT.

I agree with you, because the bloodprice lost is easily replaced by blood weapon, which practically (after a lot of trial) capable doing the same thing. So maybe DRK just lose reprisal, whereas PLD lose shield swipe, which is kinda huge since pacification doesn't really work on bosses. Low blow reset isn't that big of a deal, at least not for me

[Thoro39]

DRK/PLD is moreover a tossup, since DRK loses much more options from not-tanking than PLD. A DRK loses Bloodprice, Reprisal, Lowblow procs, while PLD only loses their shieldswipe. So from an theoritical optimal standpoint, it's more raiddps to have the DRK MT and the PLD OT in that sense.
However I agree that PLD's enmity combo in their dps combo makes it hard for a DRK MT to maximize their DPS when they have an OT-PLD as their co-tank, so from a practical standpoint, it's sometimes difficult.

[Rongway]

Keep in mind that these are of course optimizations. What should happen in the perfect party.

What you get in DF will not always conform, and if you have a tank buddy who doesn't want to perform the prescribed role, whether it be because of inexperience / lack of confidence (this is okay) or laziness / stubbornness (this is not, but it will happen anyway), the relevant question will sometimes be not "which job should MT?" but "which position is more difficult/technical for this particular fight?"

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

DRK should always be mt over pld. DRKS lose so much damage and their only utility as an OT, why would you ever force that on them?

[SpookyGhost]

DRK should always be mt over pld. DRKS lose so much damage and their only utility as an OT, why would you ever force that on them?

Because it's DF and it's easier for a PLD to maintain aggro regardless of how they play, whereas a reckless DRK will lose it. Ideally a DRK would MT, but DF doesn't work under ideal conditions.

[Zampp]

Depends on the content. In Normal mode crap war should always MT. Savage Have the tank thats not a war tank(most of the time). In NM War pull with unchained. Once Unchained ends swap to dps stance and tank in it. As 0 of the current NM fights need tank stance and war can get most aggro while doing most damage.

If you are running with PLD DRK it depends on fight.

[Lambdafish]

DRK should always be mt over pld. DRKS lose so much damage and their only utility as an OT, why would you ever force that on them?

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

[ArdorGrey]

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

Iunno. The idea of an "MT" and "OT" period is kinda stupid. Everything goes smoother when tanks share uptime-assuming healers aren't stupid, but they usually are.

That aside, plds can bring some decent hurt in OT stance(I'd be curious in serious mathers revisiting the 2.x revelation that war MT/pld OT was actually higher dps than the opposite) and have way more OT utility than drk. The only advantage of bringing drk as ot or mt is only damage over pld, and a little bit from riposte when MTing.

Some of the most DF fun I've had is OTing as pld and using cover in abusive situations and stoneskinning during downtime breathers. I used to occasionally see OT plds that did stuff like this in 2.x(and these few awesome souls are actually what inspired me to level pld in 3.x), but since 3.x plds are 100% in the already popular "I HAZ SHIELD SO MAEK WAY FOR OBVERUS MT!" camp. Even your entire argument for pld MT ignores the fact that pld can throw cover on the MT while OTing and thus add their own formidable physical defense on top of the other tanks already more than plentiful physical mitigation. Drk OT is just a jankey dps. :/

[Msugi]

I was just thinking about this when I showered. My PLD is 58 now, and since I enjoyed both WAR and DRK so much, it makes me think whether having a 60 seemingly simplistic PLD is going to be of any use at all. But then it came to me that PLD is just like the NIN/BRD of tank classes; the skills that I thought rather useless (Cover, Healing Skills, and Stoneskin) only can be optimized when we're not so busy tanking. Even Hallowed Ground can be used sparingly in DF dungeons to let the healer switch to Cleric Stance and burn down the boss for the next 10 secs.

Yes, maybe Sword Oath PLD will never beat DRK and WAR OT stance, but its utilities may come in handy either as a raid utility dps boost or raid survivability in Savages (Pardon me if I'm wrong, never tried any savage so it's not really my place to make the claim). Maybe now in DRK/PLD situation I will let the DRK MT while I'm being the supportive PLD, because I never really sure what to do when there's no WAR around. I simply assume that if the other tank doesn't have the tank stance on, it means they want me to MT lol.

[Launched]

Because a fight is mostly physical damage, and PLDs are far better suited to mitigating physical damage. Like I said in my original post, it is highly dependent on the fight. Just because you lost damage and utility as OT doesn't automatically make DRK a better MT than PLD.

Edit: The real answer is that you should never run a DRK/PLD combo and the tank meta sucks.

If, for some reason, you had PLD+DRK (party finder/raid finder etc.), you'd lose a lot more by having PLD MT. Reprisal is a lot more important than PLD taking slightly less physical damage, because DRK can tank everything fine and still drop Grit to get the most out of Blood Weapon. There's no fight where having a PLD MT greatly reduces the strain on healers.