Discuss the Abolishment of the Armoury System and Classes

[Neptune]

Note that I didn't say request in the title. I'd like to hold a discussion.

If you go to FINALFANTASYXIV.com you can read all about the wonderful classes of FFXIV and the Armoury system. The problem is, while these were wonderful systems in the eyes of some, and to put it generously, severely flawed systems in the eyes of others, these two systems have changed so much in patch 1.20 that they are not recognizable at all. For instance, there are no action points, most of the abilities and spells are deleted, there are no guild marks and thus no cross class traits to buy and use, and while you can still equip abilities from other classes, you can only do 1 extra one every few ranks now.

Let's face it, the Armoury system is not the Armoury system we signed up for on day one.

Classes have also completely changed in patch 1.20. DoM are completely redone, Archer has gone from DD to support, and Pugilist has gone from away from an emphasis on DD. The fact that classes are still in the game is just a reluctant fan service at this point. Gladiator for example. What role is there for a Gladiator outside the role of Paladin? It's the same thing but having it be separate is just confusing at the point we've come to.

The dev team could have left these systems alone and decided to implement their radical changes overtop, like a job system wherein you have all new abilities at your disposal and none of your class abilities. Let's face it though, they decided to delete class abilities because of how complex that system would have been. So to those that have been playing since launch, I ask what is the significance of a class now?

I propose that keeping the Armoury and Class systems limping along in their horribly disfigured state is only going to hold the game back. It's as if these systems survived a head on collision and are currently on life support in the hospital. As a loving family member, I recommend pulling the plug and putting them out of their misery.

What then?

Then we just have a job system. I think starting from patch 1.20, we would be better off with only a job system and no classes whatsoever.

As another poster suggested recently, if the dev team made a radical change like this, they could present the option of considering your levels earned as points that you could reallocate towards the new classes if you elect to do so.

I think if we're really going to have a radical change in this game it should be radical and not just a mediocre compromise. The more patch notes and plans I see, the more I cringe at the merging of these old, open systems with the new, closed ones. Let's just go all the way. We will be better off if you could just select Black Mage, White Mage, Bard, or Paladin at the character creation screen instead of trying to explain to somebody how the classes work in this game.

Post your thoughts, and be smart about it. No knee-jerk reactions. This is a serious proposal with effects that would be wide ranging and irreversible.

EDIT: If the Armoury system goes I think you would still have the ability to switch jobs at any time, and equip cross-job abilities like in the current plan. The only difference is that you wouldn't have a class underlying it. The class and the job would be merged into one, and jobs could unlock more advanced classes like in FFXI.

[KiniRyris]

Im not completely positive on this, but i think i heard that jobs could not use actions from other classes? Jobs, as stated by the dev team, are suppose to be leaning towards party play, where as classes are for solo players. Classes would still allow for more customizing of actions which is what the armory system was founded on.

I dont believe they should just drop the classes system for those reasons.

[Spellbinder]

As much as I enjoyed the armory system, after what they've presented for changes to classes I think this is the best choice they could make. I have not played any melee classes, but from the standpoint of the Disciples of Magic I feel as if they crossed the line on changes, if only because I've apparently misinterpreted what Yoshi-P himself said.

Our next class revamps will not alter the fundamentals of each class.

As such, some details will be changed, but there will not be any major changes for classes.

Of course, if there are many demands for change after we release the details of the class revamps, we will look into those demands.

Call me crazy, but the removal and exchange of so many skills between the two mage classes present certainly seem to both be major changes and alternations to the fundamentals of both.

As stated, action points have been removed, more exclusive traits and abilities have been put in place, and the amount that can be used as cross-skills have been reduced. As I've said several times in other places, while the Jobs were created for the specialized roles that people desired so greatly, the classes have already become specialized in the process making the whole thing redundant (at least in my opinion).

The system at this point looks like its going to just get more convoluted and more complicated than necessary. Having just jobs would make things much easier, and I'm sure not enough people would care since everyone was screaming for individuality in the first place.

[lamerider]

hmm i think what SE wanted to do is , Classes are like journeyman , and Jobs are expert/master.
it's like a title..
im Not sure , but that's what they want to do , i guess..
you'll get stronger and get a new title..
of course it's meaningless so it's deletable ( especially for classes ).
but you know , most of games has something like this..
well just imo so i can be wrong.

[Kiote]

As much as I enjoyed the armory system, after what they've presented for changes to classes I think this is the best choice they could make. I have not played any melee classes, but from the standpoint of the Disciples of Magic I feel as if they crossed the line on changes, if only because I've apparently misinterpreted what Yoshi-P himself said.



Call me crazy, but the removal and exchange of so many skills between the two mage classes present certainly seem to both be major changes and alternations to the fundamentals of both.

As stated, action points have been removed, more exclusive traits and abilities have been put in place, and the amount that can be used as cross-skills have been reduced. As I've said several times in other places, while the Jobs were created for the specialized roles that people desired so greatly, the classes have already become specialized in the process making the whole thing redundant (at least in my opinion).

The system at this point looks like its going to just get more convoluted and more complicated than necessary. Having just jobs would make things much easier, and I'm sure not enough people would care since everyone was screaming for individuality in the first place.

Can you post the link to that quote? I have been looking for it for days.

Yoshida has completely back tracked on his word. He has torn the class system apart and none of the classes even remotely resemble what they once were. I'm sick of people defending his actions while denying that he ever said this. He talks about earning back the fans trust but throws out massive lies like this into the community..

[Delsus]

Can you post the link to that quote? I have been looking for it for days.

Yoshida has completely back tracked on his word. He has torn the class system apart and none of the classes even remotely resemble what they once were. I'm sick of people defending his actions while denying that he ever said this. He talks about earning back the fans trust but throws out massive lies like this into the community..

He realised the system is broken so is fixing it, something you obviously cant see, if they keep classes the same they might as well roll the DoW/M into 3 classes Fighter, Tank and Mage, because thats all we have now.

[Jinko]

Can you post the link to that quote? I have been looking for it for days.

Yoshida has completely back tracked on his word. He has torn the class system apart and none of the classes even remotely resemble what they once were. I'm sick of people defending his actions while denying that he ever said this. He talks about earning back the fans trust but throws out massive lies like this into the community..

I really don't care what he does, as long as it makes the game better and more final fantasy like, nothing in this game is anything remotely like Final Fantasy expect the odd chocobo and airship which both have been implemented by Yoshida.

So stop your QQing.

some of you make me head spin with this self entitlment stuff, if you don't like the direction the game is going dont' play it.

[Duuude007]

Some of you make me head spin with this self entitlment stuff, if you don't like the direction the game is going dont' play it.

SE's job is not to appeal to everyone, their job is to make a game that players enjoy. Although these two factors may not necessarily be mutually exclusive, Yoshida and his team still have to walk a fine line to prevent the game from becoming an etitlement-fest black hole. Too many other mmo's have died for the same fault.

[Chardrizard]

This is a serious proposal that will never happens.

I like the way Armoury System the way they are and i like the plan of how Job system is going to be, however i wouldn't discuss or trying so hard to push it away (or push armoury system out in this case) without trying it out first.

I guess it's just a common attitude for some people in this forum. Same old, same old.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I don't think this will happen. Don't forget the 1=1 ratio on jobs it's temporary. In the future gla could unlock both pld and dark knight.
Removing classes mean in the future 1)no branching from current jobs, new classes just pop from nowhere 2)branch jobs into new jobs, wich is ...the same as now