Thread: Request: Ability to re-assign class levels after 1.20

So I guess there are three consistent responses in this thread. I'll try to address them again here.

1) "You were a crappy healer before for not having 50CNJ."
I ranked THM prior to 1.18, and my main is ARC. (If you can make an argument for why healing THM needed 50CNJ in 1.17, feel free to do so.) When 1.18 came out and THM was relegated to RDM status (i.e. secondary healer), I accepted that, just as I accepted ARC's nerfs in 1.19. I ranked up THM in the first place because it happened to be the best healer, not because I wanted to main heal. I'm fine with it not being mainheal, but I still would like to keep a healing job.

2) "Just level up another class instead."
As I said before, if you believe that "Just rank up a different class for the same role" is a valid response, why not just do a character wipe? Isn't the point of not doing a wipe to prevent the reduplication of effort that players have already spent?

3) "You should have expected big changes."
I'm fine with the big changes; nowhere in this thread have you seen me ask that THM maintain its role. But nowhere in the scope of "big changes" is it implied that they cannot allow plays to reassign levels based on the new roles that they assign to classes.

I'm really surprised at the amount of vitriol this suggestion has generated. What is the downside of allowing players to reassign levels when major class roles are completely reworked? Is it that players will be able to reassign the time they have already invested to the new roles SE has created? Whom does this hurt?

You're acting like I'm asking for a perpetually available reassignment ability. Giving the players an option to reassign levels when they completely change roles around is completely fair and reasonable. If they radically changed crafting so that WVR and LTW no longer made any finished gear (which was all made by ARM), I would be saying the same thing.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

So I guess there are three consistent responses in this thread. I'll try to address them again here.

1) "You were a crappy healer before for not having 50CNJ."
I ranked THM prior to 1.18, and my main is ARC. (If you can make an argument for why healing THM needed 50CNJ in 1.17, feel free to do so.) When 1.18 came out and THM was relegated to RDM status (i.e. secondary healer), I accepted that, just as I accepted ARC's nerfs in 1.19. I ranked up THM in the first place because it happened to be the best healer, not because I wanted to main heal. I'm fine with it not being mainheal, but I still would like to keep a healing job.

2) "Just level up another class instead."
As I said before, if you believe that "Just rank up a different class for the same role" is a valid response, why not just do a character wipe? Isn't the point of not doing a wipe to prevent the reduplication of effort that players have already spent?

3) "You should have expected big changes."
I'm fine with the big changes; nowhere in this thread have you seen me ask that THM maintain its role. But nowhere in the scope of "big changes" is it implied that they cannot allow plays to reassign levels based on the new roles that they assign to classes.

I'm really surprised at the amount of vitriol this suggestion has generated. What is the downside of allowing players to reassign levels when major class roles are completely reworked? Is it that players will be able to reassign the time they have already invested to the new roles SE has created? Whom does this hurt?

You're acting like I'm asking for a perpetually available reassignment ability. Giving the players an option to reassign levels when they completely change roles around is completely fair and reasonable. If they radically changed crafting so that WVR and LTW no longer made any finished gear (which was all made by ARM), I would be saying the same thing.

It's very simple. THM was never a healer. It had the capability to heal and happened to be better at it due to it's cone shaped AOE. CON was always destined to heal. That was blatantly obvious many months ago when CON was given curaga and 3 different types of raises.

If you continued to level THM expecting it to become a WHM or viable healer class later in the game, the joke is on you and you have to *slowly descending Wayfarers* Deal with it.

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It's very simple. THM was never a healer. It had the capability to heal and happened to be better at it due to it's cone shaped AOE.

THM has been the superior healer for the majority of this game's existence. Both mages were designed as healers, and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

CON was always destined to heal. That was blatantly obvious many months ago when CON was given curaga and 3 different types of raises.

Um, "three months ago" was 10 months after the game was released? That doesn't sound like "always" to me.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

THM has been the superior healer for the majority of this game's existence. Both mages were designed as healers, and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

Actually, it wasn't. The cone AoE gave it a advantage. Everything else in THM's arsenal was for DoT enfeebling spells and magical defensive tanking. CON had the exact same healing potential, but with a different and ill received AoE radius. There were a few abilities that would suggest MP conservation which could point to them being strong healers, but let's just forget that for now.

Technically, when looking at that standpoint and using your logic, both would potentially become a main healer. This will be in response to your next point.

Um, "three months ago" was 10 months after the game was released? That doesn't sound like "always" to me.

Yet you still leveled THM after that change. In this specific case, it's really about common sense. When you see changes to one class going into a main healing role put two and two together and make a safe assumption that this is probably projected to be a main healer. Sorry you wasted very little mind power to achieve maxing your THM, but you should have saw this coming a while ago. Unless, you're on a three month delay.

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

When you see changes to one class going into a main healing role put two and two together and make a safe assumption that this is probably projected to be a main healer.

Is it logical to assume that the game would be changed so that there is only one healing class? In which FFs (or any other MMO ever) is this the case? Do buffs to WHM indicate that RDMs should prepare to lose cure spells?

I'm not objecting to CNJ being made the main healer. I don't know why you keep bringing up that point.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

Is it logical to assume that the game would be changed so that there is only one healing class? In which FFs (or any other MMO ever) is this the case? Do buffs to WHM indicate that RDMs should prepare to lose cure spells?

I'm not objecting to CNJ being made the main healer. I don't know why you keep bringing up that point.

Then what is the problem? You want to be given a choice to change your class levels because you made a poor choice when the signs and the information dished out from the devs have been here for months? You know, THM can still use CON's healing spell. They just can't use their heavy cure spell. You don't know the effectiveness this cure spell will scale to.

You could be a fine back up healer. Not a main healer, of course, but if that is what you want then level the class. For the 500th time... it's not difficult to do this anymore.

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Then what is the problem? You want to be given a choice to change your class levels because you made a poor choice when the signs and the information dished out from the devs have been here for months?

Which was, in turn, many months after I had already made the choice and ranked up THM. That doesn't do me much good.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

I'm really surprised at the amount of vitriol this suggestion has generated.

Most people don't like it when someone complains about a "problem" that is generally considered to not be a big deal. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

What is the downside of allowing players to reassign levels when major class roles are completely reworked?

Implementing this feature takes away time and resources away from tackling other, more important issues. The "benefit" that a minority of players would gain from this feature is miniscule compared to the effort it would take.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

Whom does this hurt?

This hurts the timetable for implementing actual reforms that make the game better.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

You're acting like I'm asking for a perpetually available reassignment ability.

I think that most, if not all the responders in this thread know that you only wanted a one-time deal. We understand what you are saying. Don't try to dismiss our arguments because you think that we don't understand what you are asking for.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

If they radically changed crafting so that WVR and LTW no longer made any finished gear (which was all made by ARM), I would be saying the same thing.

That's because changing WVR and LTW like that makes no logical sense and is not in line with the future aims and goals of the class system.

Changing THM and CNJ in the ways they have laid out DOES make logical sense and IS in line with the future aims and goals of the class system.

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

snip

Agree with all of your points.

I do think you should add that bending to a request like this sends a dangerous message - that being: "If you don't like the changes that we are making, we will compensate you!".

The dev team should not be held to allocate resources to giving special treatment to people who aren't happy with their changes. MMOs are games that are constantly evolving, and players are going to love and hate every change that comes with that. The Devs do not have to answer for said changes, and they certainly do not have to compensate the players for them. I feel like SE has been so generous with responding to player feedback, and implementing ideas as a result of said feedback into the game that the players here feel that they're entitled to service from the developers that no company would ever even consider. The reason no company would seriously consider such a request is that if they bend to one request like this, they will receive a flood of requests from people who feel like they've been cheated by any little thing from every update. It's a slippery slope that I would rather the devs not go down.

Originally Posted by Tsuga

I do think you should add that bending to a request like this sends a dangerous message - that being: "If you don't like the changes that we are making, we will compensate you!".

It amazes me that you consider this a problem to be avoided.

If they compensate players every time they completely change the roles of classes in the game, I think that would be a good thing.